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R R1b ALL Subclades

If you are R-M269, R-P25, R-M343 or any subclade of R1b - JOIN >>>>>>
  • 20564 members

About us

Welcome to the R1b All Subclades Master Project and Gateway!


R1b is the paternal branch of the human family tree marked by the mutation M343+. R1b includes all R-M269 people. If you are R1b of any type, including predicted M343+, P25+, M269+ or of any descendant SNP such as U106+, P312+, L21+, DF27+, U152+, S1194+, Z2103+ or V88+; please join this project. R1b-M343 is the most common Y DNA haplogroup of men across Europe and the Americas. R1b is diverse as it expanded explosively in the Bronze Age. This means it is important to know which major subclade you belong to and join that sub-project.

The goals of the R1b All Subclades Master Project and Gateway are to gain deeper understanding of the origins and migrations of our ancient lineages while helping you find family paternal lineages, relationships and recent origins. We support DNA testing steps that will identify where you fit within R1b and join you to the right subclade project. This is called the gateway service. The project administrators automatically add members to the appropriate R1b subclade project as test results dictate. This project is only for R1b people who are willing to be added to the appropriate subclade projects. The largest subclades projects are the P312, U106, L21, DF27, U152, and R1b Basal (M343+ P312- U106- early/basal branches) projects. Detailed information on these subclades is available on the ABOUT/RESULTS page.

As you test SNPs and are classified into major subclades, please stay in the R1b project as a role model. We need people who have tested deeply to be included in the R1b Haplotypes comparisons so new people can learn what testing they might consider. The best role models are those with Big Y500. It is a benefit to you to stay so more people can more easily find you. You can see your ancient subclade mates in this project where FTDNA matching leaves off.

Make sure to review the ABOUT/RESULTS project page to see the tree, maps and related research.

Discovering the giant family tree of paternal lineages is an important task for this project. This will help us understand the origins of R1b as a whole, at the subclade levels and down to the genealogical family tree level.Y Giant Tree

The primary method of marking branches on the tree are SNP results so this project is for folks interested in SNP testing. Please read this WELCOME page entirely. Below you will find:

Key Steps to Take

Project Considerations and Operations

More about SNPs

Frequently Asked Questions



Key Steps to Take 

1. You must have a Y test result with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA). For frequently asked questions and answers about Y DNA testing check the ABOUT/FAQ item in the menu above. National Genographic testers can join, but first you must transfer your test results to FTDNA. All members must order Y STRs or they will not appear on the project reports and in the Y matching system.

2. To join this project click on JOIN in the graphic banner at the top of this page and login with your FTDNA account kit number and password.

3. Update your FTDNA account by going to MANAGE PERSONAL INFORMATION. This is critical to finding potential relatives and origins. We must share data to be successful. I recommend using the tested person's last name as the Contact Last Name. If the kit owner is different than the tester, please use the First Name field to include "c/o" and the kit owner's full name (for mailing purposes).

3A. Go to PRIVACY & SHARING to check the below settings or you will not be a part of analyses.
Matching Preferences/Y DNA - All Levels
Origin Sharing - Opt in to Sharing
Project Sharing/Group Profile - Opt in to Sharing

3B. Go to PROJECT PREFERENCES to check Advanced or Limited Access for the project administrators. We can't help you if not granted at least Limited Access. Don't forget to check the box for future administrators too.

3C. Go to GENEALOGY to update your Paternal Ancestor. Enter only information that is not speculative. Example: “James Welch, b.c.1812, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland”. Enter your COUNTRY or leave blank if you don't know. Do not enter "U.S." unless truly of Native American paternal lineage. Please try to be specific if UNITED KINGDOM; pick either ENGLAND, IRELAND, NORTHERN IRELAND, SCOTLAND or WALES. Use current country borders so use NORTHERN IRELAND if accurate even if the ancestor predated its formation. Update the map location.

4. Join the Yahoo email message group for this project. Several project administrators and advanced R1b analysts are available on the R1b-YDNA yahoo forum so you can get help. There are also links to scientific papers, research data, etc. on this group. You can use a nickname rather than your actual name for this group. You can email R1b-YDNA-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to subscribe or visit groups.yahoo.com/groups/R1b-YDNA

5. If you are not at 111 Y STRs (Short Tandem Repeats) please upgrade. Our subclades are young so extended STRs are helpful to discern between subgroups potential relatives. Even if you have very few matches, upgrading occasionally picks up missing matches as well as refines matches. More STRs is a good investment in the matching database. Y111 is the gold standard and the majority in the major R1b subclade projects are at Y111. To learn more, read www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/y-str/upgrading-markers-improve-information/

More STRs can help...
a) identify your signature markers, guiding you on SNP/haplogroup testing and saving money on that kind of testing,
b) provide additional and better matches on your myFTDNA matches screen, even new matches can show up,
c) improve precision for Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) estimates,
d) and going all the way to 111 Y STRs supports family tree building when you reach brick walls in your genealogy, since the 111 STR panel is estimated to have a change once every three generations.

6. Move forward with an Single-Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) testing plan so your subclade can be identified and haplogroup updated. Evaluating matches at 67 or 111 STRs can be very helpful. Clear patterns or STR signatures among your best matches may help you decide what SNPs or SNP Packs to buy. This project's Activity Feed as well as the R1b-YDNA yahoo group are setup to help you evaluate testing plans. Even if you don't have matches on myFTDNA, the projects R1b-GOLD_Haplotypes spreadsheet can be helpful in identifying signature STRs for more efficient SNP testing.

SNPs can be ordered one at a time from FTDNA from your account, selecting the blue UPGRADES button and then scrolling down to the ADVANCED TESTS box and the BUY NOW button.

6A. Big Y-500 is the preferred test.  It is probably the most important test you can take. It is a Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) test that discovers new SNPs by scanning over 10 million locations on the Y chromosome. A tremendous benefit is you will discover SNPs for just your paternal lineage as well as identify ancient SNPs that you may share with many, many other people. Big Y has the ability to discover SNPs that are pertinent to the genealogical timeframe, the last couple of hundred years. The Big Y learning web site has more details. www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/big-y/. Please read the Lewis and Clark Expedition analogy for Big Y exploration on the FAQ page. www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/faq/

6B. The R1b-M343 & M269 Backbone SNP Pack is a cost effective option that gives you very good coverage of the large branches of R1b. It can place you in the appropriate major subclades of R1b. You can order it from your FTDNA account. If you don't see the option, please check the blue UPGRADES button, then the BUY NOW button in the ADVANCED TESTS box, and pick SNP PACK in the SELECT A PRODUCT box. Please post on the R1b-YDNA yahoo group if you have questions.

If you have a true interest in genetic genealogy and breaking beyond the brickwalls of your genealogical records, please strongly consider Big Y500 to determine your haplogroup down to a very recent timeframe so that you can refine your close-in family and surname mutation history tree. Y111 is included in Big Y500.


Project Considerations and Operations

The project administrators are volunteers and do not represent the vendors nor receive special benefits.
This is a public project. The more of us who test and share our information, the more we will all know. When you join you're making surname, ancestor and DNA related results public, from which they can never be fully retracted. Please remove yourself if you don't want to share publicly. We do not publish your full given name or contact info.

This is a Y DNA haplogroup project. Actively participating involves Y SNP testing. SNP testing is required to be assigned to a subgrouping.

This project is operated as a system of record project. It is intended to operate for posterity purposes. Our descendants and family members and distant cousins can continue on when we are not able to or have new focuses in life. New generations can build upon our work. Subgroupings are done by SNP validated testing with a chain of evidence to the test results. Surnames and STR based predictions are not used to assigned subgroupings. Please validate findings with FTDNA testing so the project reports and analysis will reflect that. Outside research is fine, but please test at least your most youthful (terminal) haplogroup SNP at FTDNA.

Thank you for your consideration. If you have specific questions please post join the R1b-YDNA discussion group at groups.yahoo.com/groups/R1b-YDNA/


More about SNPs

Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs) are very stables, mutating rarely. Most European R1b paternal lineages are related within the last several thousand years. That means that R1b STR based haplotypes often look alike. The most common pattern of Y STRs is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). Most R1b people match several components of it. It is just a remnant of the fact we are closely related. SNPs differentiate the branches of R1b’s descendants tree. An simplified, overview version is on this project's ABOUT/OVERVIEW web page.

R1b itself, the trunk of our tree, is marked by the SNP M343. We all are M343+ since it was present in our common ancestor, a single prehistoric man. There are now thousands of known branches on the R1b tree.

Many of these branches have coincidentally matching Y STRs. In other words, their branches appear to cross. This gives us false matches. This is definitely a problem with limited haplotypes of Y12 and Y25 STR markers. Getting up to Y37 helps, as does Y67, but Y111 is much more helpful and the new standard.

STRs are very useful for general guidance and for matching at the very recent family level, but they are not 100% reliable since some mutate relatively quickly and go both up and down and back to where they started from.

SNPs are more stable markers for our paternal lineages. They are nearly permanent throughout eternity so reliably our branching of paternal lineages. The number of SNPs available for testing is growing as more and more advanced testing is developed. You will want to identify your
terminal SNP, which is the youngest SNP mutation that you have, that is on a formal Y DNA tree. Your terminal SNP tells you where you fit from a deep ancestral perspective.

SNPs help...
a) make you more efficient by avoiding false matches when checking for potential genealogical relationships,
b) help you identify deep ancestral family, clan or historical origins,
c) show you what geographic locations might produce additional matches and pertinent genealogical or historical information and
d) benefit all R1b people in general, as well as science, because we'll have a better understanding of how and when this lineage of men spread across Europe as rapidly and as dominantly as it did.

For additional information on SNP testing please visit dna-explained.com/2012/08/10/to-snp-or-not-to-snp/


Frequently Asked Questions are answered on the R1b FAQ page

Why Y DNA testing?

Why DNA testing at a full platform genetic genealogy company?

Why Y STRs and how are they used?

Why Y SNPs and how are they used?

Why Big Y Next Generation Sequencing?

What should I do with my Big Y results?

Should I upgrade Y STRs, even if I have limited or no matches?

What are SNP Packs and which should I consider?

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