R R1b ALL Subclades

If you are R-M269, R-P25, R-M343 or any subclade of R1b - JOIN >>>>>>
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About us

Welcome to the R1b All Subclades Master Project and Gateway!

R1b is the branch of the human family tree marked by the mutation M343+. This includes all R-M269 people. It is the most common Y chromosome clade of paternal lineages across much of Europe.There are several larges subclades of R1b so there are several large subclade projects, one of which will be important to you. Be sure to read the ANALYSIS AND COMMENTARY on the RESULTS page of this project. If you are R1b of any type, including M343+, P25+, M269+ or any descendant SNP such as U106+ or P312+, you are invited to join the project.

The goals of the R1b All Subclades Master Project and Gateway are to gain deeper understanding of the origins and migrations of our male lineages, as R1b people, while helping you find family paternal lineages and deep ancestral origins. An important role of the project is to support DNA testing steps that will help identify where you fit within R1b and join you to the right subclade project. This is what we call a gateway service. The R1b project administrators will automatically add members to the appropriate R1b subclade project as test results dictate. This project is only for those R1b people who are willing to be added to the appropriate subclade projects. The largest subclades projects are the P312, U106, L21, DF27, U152, and R1b basal (M343+ P312- U106- early/basal branches) projects. More information on these subclades is available on the RESULTS page.

As project members are placed in major subclade projects we ask them to continue in the R1b project, but in a new role - a model. We need people who have tested deeply to stay in the project and be included in the R1b Haplotypes comparisons so the new people can learn what testing they might consider and the compare themselves with model haplotype results. The best models are those with Big Y and 111 STR tests completed.

An important task is to discover the full deep ancestral family tree of paternal lineages for all R1b people. This will help us understand the origins of R1b as a whole, at the subclade levels and down to the genealogical family tree level. The primary method of marking branches in the tree are SNPs so this project is for people who are interested in SNP testing.  Please read this web page entirely. Below you will find:

Key Steps to Take

Project Considerations and Operations

More about SNPs

Frequently Asked Questions

Key Steps to Take 

1. You must have a test result with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA.) To read more about Y DNA testing check the DNA FAQ item in the menu above. National Genographic Project testers can easily join, but first you must transfer your test results to FTDNA. All members, must order Y STRs or they will not appear on the project screens and in the Y matching system.

2. To join this project click on JOIN in the graphic banner above and login with your FTDNA account ID and password.

3. Update your FTDNA account by going to MANAGE PERSONAL INFORMATION. This is critical to finding potential relatives and understanding origins. We have to share data for the project to be successful. I recommend using the tested person's last name as the Contact Last Name but using the First Name for full name with "c/o" of the kit owner if different that the tested person.

3A. Go to PRIVACY & SHARING to make sure your privacy settings are correct or it does you almost no good to be in the project.
Group Project Profile - Opt In
Origin Sharing - 
Opt In
Y DNA Matching level - All
3B. Go to PROJECT PREFERENCES to grant Full or Limited Access for the current project administrators. We can't help you if you have not granted at least Limited Access.

3C. Go to GENEALOGY to update your Paternal Ancestor. Enter only information that is not speculative. Example: “James Welch, b.c.1812, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland”. Enter your COUNTRY or leave blank if you don't know. Do not enter "U.S" unless truly of Native American paternal lineage. Please try to be specific if UNITED KINGDOM; pick either ENGLAND, IRELAND, NORTHERN IRELAND, SCOTLAND or WALES. Use current country borders so use NORTHERN IRELAND if accurate even if the ancestor predated its formation. Update the map location.
4. Join the Yahoo discussion group for this project. Several project administrators and advanced R1b hobbyists are available on the R1b-YDNA yahoo forum so you can get help. There are also links to scientific papers, research data, etc. on this group. You do not need to supply your actual name for this group. You can use a nickname. You can email to subscribe or visit

5. If you have not yet tested to 111 Y STRs (Short Tandem Repeats) please upgrade. R1b is young so it is hard to discern between subgroups and potential relatives oftentimes without 67 STRs. 111 STR testing is clearly preferable and a better deal in terms of cost per STR. You can upgrade in lower priced steps to get to Y111 if needed. To learn more, read

More STRs can help...
a) identify your signature markers, guiding you on SNP/haplogroup testing and saving money on that kind of testing,
b) provide additional and better matches on your myFTDNA matches screen, even new matches can show up,
c) improve precision for Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) estimates,
d) and going all the way to 111 Y STRs supports family tree building when you reach brick walls in your genealogy, since the 111 STR panel is estimated to have a change once every three generations.

6. Move forward with an Single-Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) testing plan so your subclade can be identified and haplogroup labeled properly. Evaluating matches you have at 67 or 111 STRs can be very helpful and should not be overlooked. Clear patterns among your best matches may help you decide what SNPs or SNP Packs to buy. This project's Activity Feed as well as the R1b-YDNA yahoo group are setup to help you evaluate testing plans. Even if you don't have matches on myFTDNA, the projects R1b-GOLD_Haplotypes spreadsheet can be helpful in identifying signature STRs and providing guidance on SNP testing.

SNPs can be ordered one at a time from FTDNA by logging into your myFTDNA account, selecting the blue UPGRADES button and then scrolling down to the ADVANCED TESTS box and the BUY NOW button. SNP Packs can also be ordered here.

6A. Big Y-500 is the preferred test.  It is probably the most important test you can take. It is a Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) test that discovers new SNPs by scanning over 10 million locations on the Y chromosome. The tremendous benefit in this is you will discover SNPs for just your paternal lineage as well as identify ancient SNPs that you may share with many, many other people. Big Y has the ability to discover SNPs that are pertinent to the genealogical timeframe, the last couple of hundred years. The Big Y learning web site has more details. Please read the Lewis and Clark Expedition analogy for Big Y exploration on the FAQ page.

6B. The R1b-M343 & M269 Backbone SNP Pack is a very cost effective option that gives you very good coverage of the early branching of R1b. It can place you in the appropriate major subclades of R1b. You can order it from your myFTDNA account. If you don't see the option, please check the blue UPGRADES button, then the BUY NOW button in the ADVANCED TESTS box, and pick SNP PACK in the SELECT A PRODUCT box. Please post on the R1b-YDNA yahoo group if you have questions.

If you have a true interest in genetic genealogy and breaking beyond the brickwalls of your genealogical records, please strongly consider both Big Y to determine your haplogroup down to a very recent timeframe and 111 STRs so that you can refine your close-in family and surname mutation history tree.

Project Considerations and Operations

The project administrators are volunteers and do not represent the vendors nor receive special benefits.

This is a public project. The more of us who test and share our information, the more we will all know. When you join you're making surname, ancestor and DNA related results public, from which they can never be fully retracted. Please remove yourself if you don't want to share publicly. We do not publish your full given name or contact info.

This is a Y DNA haplogroup project. Actively participating involves Y SNP testing. SNP testing is required to be assigned to a subgrouping.

This project is operated as a system of record project. It is intended to operate for posterity purposes. Our descendants and family members and distant cousins can continue on when we are not able to or have new focuses in life. New generations can build upon our work. Subgroupings are done by SNP validated testing with a chain of evidence to the test results. Surnames and STR based predictions are not used to assigned subgroupings. SNP results researched without FTDNA test validation are not included so please validate findings with FTDNA testing. Outside research is good, but please validate branching at FTDNA for the project test results. As changes are made to project administrators the subgroupings can be reconstructed or re-validated as needed given they are based on test results on the Y DNA SNP report page of the project.

Thank you for your consideration. Please review the Results web page. If you have specific questions please post join the R1b-YDNA discussion group at

More about SNPs

Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs) are critical for R1b people as they are very stable, rarely mutating. R1b is both a very large group and relatively young. Most European R1b paternal lineages are related within the last several thousand years. That means that R1b STR based haplotypes often look alike. The most common pattern of Y STRs is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). Most R1b people match several components of it. It is just a remnant of the fact we are closely related. SNPs help differentiate the branches of R1b’s descendants tree. A high level simplified version is on this project's About Overview web page.

R1b itself, the main branch of our tree, is marked by the SNP M343. We all are M343+ since it was present in our common ancestor, a single prehistoric man. There are now thousands of known branches on the R1b tree.

Many of these branches have coincidentally matching Y STRs. In other words, their branches appear to cross. This gives us false matches.This is definitely a problem with limited haplotypes of 12 and 25 STR markers. Getting up to 37 helps, but 67 is really needed and 111 is the new standard.

STRs are very useful for general guidance and for matching at the very recent family level, but they are not 100% reliable since some mutate relatively quickly and go both up and down and back to where they started from.

SNPs are much more reliable markers for our paternal lineages. Theoretically, they are permanent throughout eternity so they reliably show our branching of paternal lineages. The number of SNPs available for testing is growing as more and more advanced testing is developed. You will want to identify your terminal SNP, which is the youngest SNP mutation that you have, that is on a formal Y DNA tree. Your terminal SNP tells you where you fit from a deep ancestral perspective.

SNPs help...
a) make you more efficient by avoiding false matches when checking for potential genealogical relationships,
b) help you identify deep ancestral family, clan or historical origins,
c) show you what geographic locations might produce additional matches and pertinent genealogical or historical information and
d) benefit all R1b people in general, as well as science, because we'll have a better understanding of how and when this lineage of men spread across Europe as rapidly and as dominantly as it did.

For additional information on SNP testing please visit

Frequently Asked Auestions are answered on the R1b FAQ page

Why Y DNA testing?

Why DNA testing at a full platform genetic genealogy company?

Why Y STRs and how are they used?

Why Y SNPs and how are they used?

Why Big Y Next Generation Sequencing?

Should I upgrade Y STRs, even if I have limited or no matches?

What are SNP Packs and which should I consider?

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