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R R1b ALL Subclades

R-M269, R-P25 and R1b of all types Project and Gateway
  • 10889 members

About us


Welcome to the R1b All Subclades project and gateway!


R1b is the branch of the human family tree marked by the mutation M343+. This includes all R-M269 people. It is the most common Y chromosome clade of paternal lineages across much of Europe.There are several larges subclades of R1b so there are several large subclade projects, one of which will be important to you. Be sure to read the ANALYSIS AND COMMENTARY on the RESULTS page of this project. If you are R1b of any type, including M343+, P25+, M269+ or any descendant SNP such as U106+ or P312+, you are invited to join the project.

The goals of the R1b and Subclades project are to gain deeper understanding of the origins and migrations of our male lineages, as R1b people, while helping you find family paternal lineages and deep ancestral origins. An important role of the project is to support DNA testing steps that will help identify where you fit within R1b and get you to the right subclade project. This is what we call a gateway service. The R1b project administrators will automatically add members to the appropriate R1b subclade project as test results dictate. This project is only for those R1b people who are willing to be added to the appropriate subclade projects. The largest subclades projects are the P312, U106, L21, DF27, U152, and R1b basal (M343+ P312- U106- early branches) projects. More information on these subclades is available on the RESULTS page.

As project members are placed in major subclade projects we ask them to continue in the R1b project, but in a new role - a model. We need people who have tested deeply to stay in the project and be included in the R1b Haplotypes comparisons so the new people can learn what testing they might consider and the compare themselves with model haplotype results. The best models are those with Big Y and 111 STR tests completed.

An important task is to discover the full deep ancestral family tree of paternal lineages for all R1b people. This will help us understand the origins of R1b as a whole, at the subclade levels and down to the genealogical family tree level. The primary method of marking branches in the tree are SNPs so this project is for people who are interested in SNP testing.


Key steps for you to take 

1. You must have a test result with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA.) To read more about DNA testing check the DNA FAQ item in the menu above. National Genographic Project testers can easily join, but first you must transfer your test results to FTDNA by following the instructions at your National Genographic web page. Genographic customers must order Y STRs or they will not appear on the project screens and in the Y MATCHING system..

2. To join this project click on JOIN in the graphic banner above and login with your FTDNA account ID and password.

3. Update your myFTDNA dashboard by clicking on MANAGER PERSONAL INFORMATION. This is critical to finding potential relatives and understanding origins.

3A. Make sure your privacy settings are correct for the project. Click on the tab PRIVACY & SHARING. Look under MY DNA RESULTS for the question "Who can view my DNA results in group projects?".  Change to ANYONE if it isn't already.

3B. Update your Paternal Ancestor name and origins. Click on the tab PERSONAL PROFILE tab and scroll down to update your paternal origins information from the MyFTDNA dashboard after logged into. Select MOST DISTANT ANCESTORS and complete the information for your PATERNAL DIRECT most distant (oldest) ancestor. Please enter only information that is not speculative. Enter first and last names, birth year and as specific a birth and origin location as you can in the NAME field. For example, “James Welch, b.c.1812, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland”. For the COUNTRY OF ORIGIN field, please be as specific as possible. For instance, rather than select UNITED KINGDOM please pick either ENGLAND, IRELAND, NORTHERN IRELAND, SCOTLAND OR WALES if you know the origin. Add the latitude and longitude information as well so that the automatic maps can be drawn properly.
If you don't know, that is okay. Unknown may be the correct answer.
 
4. An additional sharing option is to create a Ysearch record from your myFTDNA web page so potential relatives can contact you without exchanging email IDs or other personal information. From the Y DNA menu on select MATCHES. On that screen scroll down to find the TAKE ME TO YSEARCH.ORG button and follow the instructions there. To learn more, Ysearch is at http://ysearch.org.
 
5. Join the Yahoo discussion group for this project. Several project administrators and advanced R1b hobbyists are available on the R1b-YDNA yahoo forum so you can get help. There are also links to scientific papers, research data, etc. on this group. You do not need to supply your actual name for this group. You can use a nickname. You can email R1b-YDNA-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to subscribe or visit https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/R1b-YDNA/

The R1b_Haplotypes spreadsheet is stored at the R1b-YDNA yahoo group. It has the haplotypes for people in the project with 67 STRs or more in its ALLHTS section and has everyone with 111 STRs or more in its EXTHTS section. This spreadsheet gives you a side by side look at STRs and SNPs and supports genetic distance (GD), mode, mean, variance and allele frequency distribution calculations for R1b as a whole or for subsets that you select. The GD's are not limited by FTDNA's match list thresholds so you can see and sort your GD to anyone and everyone in the spreadsheet.

6. If you have not yet tested to 67 Y STRs (Short Tandem Repeats) please upgrade. R1b is young so it is hard to discern between subgroups and potential relatives oftentimes without 67 STRs. 111 STR testing is clearly preferable and a better deal in terms of cost per STR, but 67 is the minimum needed. To learn more, read http://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/y-str/upgrading-markers-improve-information/

More STRs can help...

a) guide you on SNP/haplogroup testing, saving money on that kind of testing,

b) provide additional and better matches on your myFTDNA matches screen,

c) improve precision for Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) estimates,

d) and going all the way to 111 Y STRs supports family tree building when you reach brick walls in your genealogy, since the 111 STR panel is estimated to have a change once every three generations.


7. Move forward with an Single-Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) testing plan so your subclade can be identified and haplogroup labeled properly. Evaluating matches you have at 67 or 111 STRs can be very helpful and should not be overlooked. Clear patterns among your best matches may help you decide what SNPs or SNP Packs to buy. This project's Activity Feed as well as the R1b-YDNA yahoo group are setup to help you evaluate testing plans. Even if you don't have matches at 67 STRs on myFTDNA, the yahoo group's 67 STR R1b_Haplotypes spreadsheet can be helpful.

SNPs can be ordered one at a time from FTDNA by logging into your myFTDNA account, selecting the blue UPGRADES button and then scrolling down to the ADVANCED TESTS box and the BUY NOW button. SNP Packs can also be ordered here.

7A. Big Y is the preferred test.  It is probably the most important test you can take. It is a Next Generation Sequencing (NGS) test that discovers new SNPs by scanning over 10 million locations on the Y chromosome. The tremendous benefit in this is you will discover SNPs for just your paternal lineage as well as identify ancient SNPs that you may share with many, many other people. Big Y has the ability to discover SNPs that are pertinent to the genealogical timeframe, the last couple of hundred years. The Big Y learning web site has more details. https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/big-y/ Please read the Lewis and Clark Expedition analogy for Big Y exploration on the FAQ page. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r1b/faq/

7B. The R1b-M343 Backbone SNP Pack is a very cost effective option that gives you very good coverage of the early branching of R1b. It can place you in the appropriate major subclades of R1b. You can order it from your myFTDNA account. If you don't see the option, please check the blue UPGRADES button, then the BUY NOW button in the ADVANCED TESTS box, and pick SNP PACK in the SELECT A PRODUCT box. Please post on the Activity Feed forum if you need help.

If you have a true interest in genetic genealogy and breaking beyond the brickwalls of your genealogical records, please strongly consider both Big Y to determine your haplogroup down to a very recent timeframe and 111 STRs so that you can refine your close-in family and surname mutation history tree.


A little more about SNPs

Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs) are critical for R1b people. R1b is both a very large group and relatively young. Most European R1b paternal lineages are related within the last several thousand years. That means that R1b STR based haplotypes often look alike. The most common pattern of Y STRs is the
Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). Most R1b people match several components of it. It is just a remnant of the fact we are closely related. SNPs help differentiate the branches of R1b’s descendants tree. A high level simplified version is on this projects "About" overview web page.

R1b itself, the main branch of our tree, is marked by the SNP M343. We all are M343+ since it was present in our common ancestor, a single prehistoric man. There are now thousands of known branches on the R1b tree.

Many of these branches have coincidentally matching Y STRs. In other words, their branches appear to cross. This gives us false matches.This is definitely a problem with limited haplotypes of 12 and 25 STR markers. Getting up to 37 helps, but 67 is really needed.

STRs are very useful for general guidance and for matching at the very recent family level, but they are not 100% reliable since some mutate relatively quickly and go both up and down and back to where they started from.

SNPs are much more reliable markers for our paternal lineages. Theoretically, they are permanent throughout eternity so they reliably show our branching of paternal lineages. The number of SNPs available for testing is growing as more and more advanced testing is developed. You will want to identify your terminal SNP, which is the youngest SNP mutation that you have, that is on a formal Y DNA tree. Your terminal SNP tells you where you fit from a deep ancestral perspective.

SNPs help...

a) make you more efficient by avoiding false matches when checking for potential genealogical relationships,

b) help you identify deep ancestral family, clan or historical origins,

c) show you what geographic locations might produce additional matches and pertinent genealogical or historical information and

d) benefit all R1b people in general, as well as science, because we'll have a better understanding of how and when this lineage of men spread across Europe as rapidly and as dominantly as it did.

For additional information on SNP testing please visit http://dna-explained.com/2012/08/10/to-snp-or-not-to-snp/


This is a public project. The more of us who test and share our information, the more we will all know. When you join this project, you have granted permission to place your Y SNP and STR data into the public domain, from which it can never be retrieved. We do not publish your full given name or contact info.

Thank you for your consideration. Please review the Results web page. If you have specific questions please post on the Activity Feed or join the R1b-YDNA discussion group at https://groups.yahoo.com/groups/R1b-YDNA/