Qasar/Khazar/Kosa/Gesa Clan of Xiongnu/Tiele

Toquz Oghuz, Qasar/Kosa of Nine Tiele Names, Tūjué Hésà
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About us

List of surnames in this project /in "background" section/ is actually a list of surnames known from other related DNA projects, and it is continously updated.

This list should be considered as one form of results/we are familiar with DNA results for listed surnames/.

In "Y results" section we will show only results of those who requested to join this historical project.

WORKING NOTE I (7th April 2008);

From the everything we know by now so far, all biological and official

historical facts points in direction that we /so called "Jewish Q's"/ are one of direct descendants of the waste /reports speaks about number of 4000 nobles in time of initial conversion on Judaism/ powerful military ruling class of the Khazarian Empire, which was one branch of the Turko-Mongolic Ashina Imperial Clan.

That is why,we-the Q's, have been placed in the Ashina-BEG (BEY,BEK)

provisional section.

1.Early development of the Ashina in north China and west Mongolia, speaks strongly in favour of Q's presence in the Ashina Genetic Pool. We can expect to have some C and O haplogroup representatives during that period, as well as R's representatives later in time.

2.Ashina Clan arrived in mid 7th century from the Gok-Turk Empire to Khazaria,and after fall of Khazaria they joined Ashkenazi

community in period from 10th up to 13th century. -TMRCA

calculations within haplogroup Q confirms this events;

example 1;


In comparing 12 markers, the probability that Mr. X and Mr. Y shared a common ancestor within the last...

4 generations is 33.57% ,8 generations is 55.88% ,12 generations is 70.69%, 16 generations is 80.53% ,20 generations is 87.07%, 24 generations is 91.41%

example 2;


In comparing 12 markers, the probability that Mr. X and Mr. Z shared a common ancestor within the last...

4 generations is 7.52% ,8 generations is 21.02% ,12 generations is 35.72%, 16 generations is 49.34%, 20 generations is 60.99%,24 generations is 70.47%

3.We don't have almost any significant Y-DNA matches outside Jewish

communities /including converts to Christianity/ or those of Viking ancestry (which is very different from the Q's from the rest of Scandinavia),and we don't have significant number of matches in present day Khazaria /southern Russia and Ukraine/ and Turkey. Differences between haplotypes are "small" and very narrow;

Minimum 13 22 13 10 14 16 12 12 12 13 15 29

Mode 13 22 13 10 14 16 12 12 12 13 15 29

Median 13 22 13 10 14 16 12 12 12 13 15 29

Mean 13 22 13 10 14 16 12 12 12 13 15 29

Maximum 14 22 13 10 15 18 12 12 12 13 15 30

-That confirms that we are descendants of separated, relatively restricted group /in sense of a "caste"/ of people extracted from other very distantly placed population.

4. Also, it is important to say that Ashina was very probably wider group of people /"sub-tribe"/sometimes called the "Imperial Race", and not necessarily connected "by blood" /common ancestry/. We are completely positive that R(R1,R1a1 etc..) haplogroup /also as O haplogroup and probably others/ was present in the Ashina genetic pool,as stated earlier, but we don't have too much strong leads "to catch on" to make firm conclusion by this date /many Y-DNA matches from different nations and religions and therefore those east-european R's ,probably in significant part ,falls into category of original general population of Khazaria/.

5. Q present in northern Iran confirms historical reports that

Ashina as other Clans and groups moved trough the Silk Road to Khazaria /evidence in support of Q presence in Ashina genetic pool/.

6. Q matches in Syria, Turkey, Iraq confirms reports that part of

the rulling military class (Ashina) escaped on the middle east

after fall of Khazaria. Other RAO data, as well, confirms historical reports about places where Khazars escaped after fall of Khazaria.

7. Q present in Jemen Jews genetic pool is very, very distantly

related to us, and represent some other group of people who

moved from Sibiria to Middle East much more earlier in time,

without geneology value for us.

There is also interesting findings about connection of some surnames, places, probable kaballistic practices, heraldry insignia etc.

Our plan is to publish a short but much more elaborated work about this subject in a year or so /2009/.

WORKING NOTE II (21st March 2009)

1.Deep Clade testing of "Q" Ashkenazi Jews , showed that they are actually rare Q1b haplogroup carriers, which is direct and "recent" (in genealogical terms)link to Central Asia.

This mutation is found in small but countable number only among current population of Hazara (mainly located in north Afghanistan and Pakistan and bordering or crossing Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, west China/Tibet, and "near by" Kirgizstan) and Sindhi people.

Certain number of close Y-DNA matches has been discovered also in Uzbekistan.

Haplogroup mutation chart shows also cases of Mongolians and Native Siberians (currently placed population).This charts are continously updated.

Testing actually underlined almost complete absence of this particular population from Europe, and in similar case in Levant (a two or three matches from Turkey, and close areas, also confirmed Old-Turk(meaning Khazar) ancestry.

Therefore, with this new knowledge, earlier conclusions has been fully proven.

2.Historical records shows that original genetic pool of Ashina was mixture of "original 500 Ashinas families" from north China/current Turkestan/ with Turkic tribes from South Siberia up to 5th century.

Further, Jewish historical records speaks about initial Khazarian Imperial Ashina input of 4000 individuals in time of conversion from Turkic Shamanism on Judaism in 8th century.

By that we have clear picture about scale of Khazar conversion.

Note;we observe all what has been found in our, and other related DNA projects and researches to obtain full and wide "picture", also we are continously browsing historical records, participants (in all Q covering projects) family traditions, oral stories, ancestral origins etc.

WORKING NOTE III (10th May 2009)

Q1b matches from Central Asia ,visible in Q-DNA Project and

one in the Ashina Project, clearly shows our Silk Road path from

north-west China/South Siberia to Europe.

Those matches are not so close to us, Ashkenazi Q1b, but still relat.gen.close , and not Jews (!), meaning that there was religious conversion and that conversion took place at some point after our ancestors branched.

One remained in Central Asia, others continued to Europe and accepted Judaism.

Total Khazar story and 1st millennium story.

WORKING NOTE IV (22nd May 2009)

Extraction from the Wikipedia articles about Khazars and Khazaria;

The most important study on the origins of Ahskenazi men has been conducted by Behar et al.(Hum Genet (2004) 114 : 354–365 to this study some of the major Y-DNA haplogroups of the Ashkenazi male line are the following:

• R-P25: 10.0%, Eurasian in origin

• R-M17: 7.5%, Eurasian in origin

• R-M173: 1.4%, Eurasian in origin

• Q-P36: 5.2%, Altaic-Siberian in origin

• G-M201: 7.7%, Caspian-Caucasus in origin

• G-P15: 2.0%, Caspian-Caucasus in origin

These haplogroups are non existent in Middle Eastern or Near Eastern populations. Haplogroup Q is shared by Siberians, Altaians and Native Americans whereas haplogroup R is predominant in Krgyz and other Turkic groups in Central Asia as well as being present in European populations. Haplogroup G is dominant in the Caucasus. These three lineages are mostly absent in Sephardic Jews. Q, R and G haplogroups together constitute a total of 33.8% of all the Ashkenazi Y-DNA haplogroups. Haplogroup Q, which constitutes more than 5% of the Ashkenazim, is thought to have come from the royal Ashina family of the Turkic Khazars who also were the founders of the Gokturk Empire as well as the Ottoman Empire. Although it is not possible to claim all the R haplogroups descended from Khazars it is safe to say that all the Q haplogroups of Ashkenazim descended from Khazars and likely a majority of the haplogroup G also descended from Khazars. Despite these results not being properly discussed in the Ashkenazim, it is clear that Turkic Khazars were a significant founding group of today's Ashkenazim men. The majority of Ashkenazim men are still from the Middle East with haplogroups J and E forming the majority. Nevertheless it is clear that there exists a significant Turkic contribution to the Ashkenazi Jewry.