R L21 and Subclades Project (to view all results, set Page Size to 1400) - News

Gaul Soldiers
Latest News:

Wednesday, 26 February 2014: Project name changed from "R-L21 Plus" to R L21 and Subclades.



Sunday, 10 March 2013: This morning I streamlined the R-L21 Plus Project a bit. I added a couple of categories for new SNPs (they have to make it to ISOGG's Tree before I will create a category for them). I also dropped almost all of the categories based at least partly on negative results: you know, "positive for this, negative for that". Those were too time consuming and difficult to maintain. Instead, each major branch SNP category carries an admonition to check for that branch's downstream SNPs, and there is an easy-to-follow pedigree for each category, like this, for example, in the case of L513: L21>DF13>L513.

The only categories I retained that are partly based on negative results have to do with the DF13/DF63 split: category "B. L21+, DF13- (If you can, test for DF63 status)" and category "Bb. L21* (DF13-, DF63-)".

If you were in one of the categories partly based on some sort of negative result, your entry has been merged back into the category for your current terminal SNP.

Gone too is the category that attempted to collect all of the guys who have tested negative for all of the currently-known DF13+ SNPs. Such info might be nice to have, but keeping track of exactly who all has tested negative for what, especially with the advent of Geno 2.0, is just too big a job in a large project like R-L21 Plus.


Tuesday, 08 January 2013: FTDNA has corrected the bulk email glitch mentioned below.


NOTE (Sunday, 06 January 2013): A recent IT glitch resulted in some R-L21 Plus Project members receiving numerous copies of the same exact project email. I sent out ONE email. What happened afterwards was inadvertent and due to nothing I did. If you don't want to continue to receive project emails, see the instructions at the bottom of the project's Background page, which have been there for quite some time. Sometimes it is necessary to pass information on to project members. Email is the best way to do that. I don't send many emails in the first place, but when I do, I send them out one at a time. As noted at the bottom of the project's Background page, I do NOT get anything from selling dna tests, and, even if I did, I wouldn't be dumb enough to send out a barrage of six or eight or more of the same exact emails at the same time, several of them timed to arrive after the sale described in the email had ended. If you receive additional copies of this email, please delete them and be patient. I have written to FTDNA, but this is the weekend. The problem may not be resolved until tomorrow.

- R. Stevens


*The Current State of L21
: The discovery of the SNP DF13 has split L21 into a very large DF13+ group and a thus far much smaller DF13- group. All of the known L21 subclades except DF63 are DF13+, meaning they are downstream of DF13, as well as L21.

If you are L21+ and have not yet tested positive for one of the L21 subclades, you should test for DF13. If you get a DF13+ result, then you can focus on testing for the seven known major DF13+ subclades: DF21, DF41, DF49, L513, L1335, Z253, and Z255. If you get a positive result for one of those subclades, then you can focus on the branches of those subclades. If you have already tested positive for one of the DF13 subclades, you do not need to test for DF13. If you get negative results for all seven of the DF13+ major branch SNPs, you can try the smaller, less populous branches: L96, L144, L371, L555, and L583. Please be aware that your chance of success with these smaller branches is much less than with the major branches.

If you get a DF13- result, you should test for DF63. Thus far, it is the only known subclade of L21 that is DF13-.

It is possible to be both DF13- and DF63-, however. We have a few men in that category already.


Recent Stuff

July 16, 2012 -- BIG NEWS! The Royal House of Stewart is R-L21! Richard Scott, the 10th Duke of Buccleuch, was tested and found to be L744+ L745+ (L21>DF13>DF41>L744>L745) and an exact match (on how many markers?) of a descendant of Charles Stewart of Ardshiel, who fought at Culloden. The House of Stewart produced a number of famous kings and queens of Scotland and England, including James VI/I (of Scotland and England, respectively) of King James Bible fame. If you are interested in this and have tested DF13+, test for DF41 first. If you get a DF41+ result, then follow up by testing for L744. If you get an L744+ result, then test for L745.

May 3, 2012 -- HUGE NEWS! R1b is found in ancient Bell Beaker remains near Kromsdorf, Germany.
One of the bodies tested M269+ and U106- (not sure why they didn't test for P312 at least)
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/05/bell-beakers-from-germany-y-haplogroup.html

The Beaker Folk

Older Stuff (Working backward in time)

April 2011 -- The following is from page 89 of the book, The Scots: A Genetic Journey, by Alistair Moffat and Dr. James F. Wilson (a geneticist):

DNA sampling reinforces an intertwined sense of two distinct seaborne trading networks in Britain and Ireland. In the west, the emphatic presence of S145 [L21] appears to mirror mercantile contact. Distinctive pots known as maritime bell beakers were first made in the region around the River Tagus in Portugal and the tradition of bows and arrows in graves may also have originated there. By 2,500 BC, this cultural package had spread north to the Morbihan area of southern Brittany and the mouth of the Loire. This area became a centre of production and exchange not only for bell beakers but also other valuable items such as axes, flints, daggers and lance heads. From Morbihan/Loire the beakers filtered down the French river valleys to the Mediterranean coast and eastwards to northern Italy. To the north, contacts were made with Wessex, Ireland and Atlantic Scotland.

Now, it appears that S145 [L21] also travelled these trading routes. The marker probably originated in southern France and northern Iberia and people carrying it came to Ireland and western Scotland. This was not a wave of migration but a series of small movements over time, probably in the millennium between 2,500 BC and 1,500 BC.



March 2011 -- YCC updates its phylogenetic tree. R-L21 is now R1b1a2a1a1b4! Best to stick with the shorthand: R-L21!

July 2010
-- 1,000 members!


June 19, 2010 -- A second Spanish/Portuguese (Iberian Peninsula) R-L21 haplotype cluster is discovered, with the following characteristic marker values: 19=15, 459b=9, and YCAIIb=19.

June 17, 2010
--Ancient Britain and the Atlantic Zone (Ireland, Armorica, and the Iberian Peninsula)

June 1, 2010 -- An apparent Spanish R-L21 haplotype cluster is discovered, with the following characteristic marker values:385a=12, 439=11, 459a=10, 447=24, 449=31-32, 464a=14, 456=15, 607=16, 438=11, 481=19. So far, there are least 11 different Spanish surnames connected with this cluster, with ancestry in various parts of Spain and Latin America. We are currently trying to recruit members of the cluster for testing in an effort to see just how extensive it is and how far flung.

April 2010
-- 800 members!

August 2009 - Random testing of men of French descent for L21 yields spectacular results. 58% (14 of 24) of those tested were L21+ (61% in Northern France).

June, 2009 -- Eastern European Ashkenazi R-L21 Haplotype Cluster discovered with characteristic marker values 388=11, 392=14, 459b=9, and 464c=15. Commenting on the comparison of several cluster haplotypes, Dr. Anatole Klyosov wrote (translated from Russian by Lena Govor):". . . [A]ll these haplotypes have 8 mutations in 25 markers and 14 mutations in 37 markers. This places the common ancestor of all 7 haplotypes 650±240 years back if calculating on the basis of 25-markers and 550±160 back if calculating on the basis of 37 markers. In other words these seven people have a common ancestor who lived in the 14-15th century. It is possible to reconstruct that these families fled Central Europe around 650 years ago when Europe was depopulated by the bubonic plaque and Jews were often massacred as alleged culprits of the epidemic. The surviving Jews fled to Lithuania and Poland, who offered them protection. Jews at that time experienced a genetic bottleneck. That is why the most distant common ancestor of many Jewish clusters lived in the middle of the 14th century or later – that corresponds to the time of their migration to the new territories in Eastern Europe."

March 15, 2009
-- The YCC (and FTDNA) updates its R Tree. R-L21 is now "R1b1b2a1b5."

March 15, 2009
-- 200 members!

January 12, 2009
-- 100 members

December 8, 2008
-- 50 members

November 22, 2008 -- R-L21 Plus Project is created

October 17, 2008
-- FTDNA control test results posted for L21; commercial testing begins

October 8, 2008 -- rs11799226=G discovered as defining a new subclade beneath P312/S116/rs34276300