Q-L712

Y-DNA: Q-L712, Q-L715, Q-L713, Q-YP789, Q-BZ351, Q-PRX42, Q-BZ1000, Q-YP4385

77 members

Administrators

Adam Ćwiklak

Co-Administrators

Karl Högström
Mehmet Yilmaz
Vladimir Gurianov
Vladimir Volkov

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About us

Administrators: Adam Ćwiklak, Dr Vladimir Gurianov, Karl Oscar Högström, Vladimir Volkov, Mehmet Ali Yilmaz

Characteristics of the haplogroup Q-L712 and its subclades

Basic information about the "Q-L712 Focus Group" Project

Project Q-L712 Focus Group exists to explore the genetic genealogy, geography and history of the Q-L712 Y-DNA branch and its subclades

The haplogroup Q-L712 Y-DNA is extremely rare and its frequency in the FTDNA data base is about 0.05%.

According to Y-FULL research, this haplogroup was formed about 16,000 years ago and its subclades were formed in the following time:

Subclade	Time ybp (about)
Q-L715	10,700
Q-BZ640	4,900
Q-YP844	4,900
Q-L713	3,800
Q-YP789	3,800
Q-BZ1000	1,950
Q-BZ351	1,950
Q-BZ1026	700

Every new Big Y result helps improve the tree structure and age estimates!

The haplogroup Q-L712 Y-DNA (Q1a1b1) is a subclade of the haplogroup Q-M25 Y-DNA (Q1a1b) which belongs to the Q-M242 Y-DNA haplogroup.

Our project is aimed at the study of Q-L712 Y-DNA and its subclades and is a subset of the larger Q-M242 Project.

All men having positive single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) Q-L712 are encouraged to take part in the Q-L712 Focus Group.

Many factors indicate primary Hunnic or Hunnic-Sarmatian origin of this haplogroup and its subclades.

Project Groups

Based on genetic genealogy and the historical and ethnographic data, the project participants are grouped into the following subgroups:

Nr	Project group	SNP	SNP	SNP	SNP	SNP	SNP	SNP	Number of project members
1.	Balkaria/Digora Group	Q-L712+	Q-L715+	Q-BZ641+	Q-BZ640+	-	-	-	19
2.	Eurasian Group I	Q-L712+	Q-L715+	Q-L713+	-	-	-	-	8
3.	Eurasian Group II	Q-L712+	Q-L715+	Q-L713+	Q-YP789+	Q-BZ1000+	-	-	6
4.	Szekelys (Szekler) Group	Q-L712+	Q-L715+	Q-L713+	Q-YP789+	-	-	-	7
5.	Polish Group	Q-L712+	Q-L715+	Q-L713+	Q-YP789+	Q-BZ351+	-	-	3
6.	Middle Eastern Group I	Q-L712+	Q-F4531+	Q-YP4400+	-	-	-	-	1
7.	Middle Eastern Group II	Q-L712+	Q-F4747+	Q-F5005+	Q-BZ992+	Q-BZ1010+	Q-BZ1026+	-	3
8.	Middle Eastern Group III	Q-L712+	Q-F4531+	Q-YP4400+	Q-F4705+	Q-F4741+	Q-Y50173+	Q-BY143900+	2

Description of the project groups:

Balkaria / Digora Group

It brings together men from the North Caucasus region belonging to the Q-L712 cluster. The majority of them derive their genealogical roots from the historical Balkarian/Digorian aristocracy associated with the dynasty of Badeliats and Basiats. According to the family legends, the ancestors of both dynasties, two real brothers (Badel and Basiat), arrived sometime in the Caucasus as foreigners and thanks to their unique attributes, abilities and skills, inter alia knowledge of firearms, were able to subdue the native Digorian people and take authority over them. At the time of Badel and Basiat arrival the indigenous people did not know firearms and gunpowder and fought with bows. In accordance with Digorian tradition, the brothers had come from Hungary or from a town called Majar located in state of the Golden Horde (some versions of the old family legend say about Hungarian and even Hunnic origin). Historians have been involved in an ongoing debate concerning Majar or Hungarian origin of Badeliats and Basiats relating to the aural similarity of the terms "Majar"and"Magyar".

According to the latest state of research, the above referred events took place in the late15th or early 16th century.

The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Balkaria / Digora Group lived ca. 500 years ago. This time is consistent with the results of archaeological research related to the beginning of the Badeliats and Basiats dynasty in Digoria.

Compiled on the basis of:

В. А. Кузнецов, Археологические данныео происхождении дигорских Баделят. Edited by: Б. Х. Бгажноков, В. А. Фоменко, Археология иэтнология Северного Кавказа. Нальчик 2012, s. 99-109.

Digorian legends:

At that time a foreigner named Badel came to Digoria. Noble Aydaruk gave him shelter. This was the beginning of the spread of firearms, and Badel brought the first rifle to Digoria. In the first battle, the foreigner showed the effects of his weapon. The enemies fled from the smoke and roar, while Badel won the sympathy of Digorian people. When he was entrusted with the watch, he excellently carries out this service, warns of the appearance of the enemy and is the first to fight. For his services, Badel receives a measure of grain from each household. However, when there was a crop failure, he was paid with lambs. It is understandable that it was easier to hand over lambs, because the main occupation of the highlanders was breeding, and there was always a shortage of bread in the mountains. However, after this exchange, Badel got rich - the lambs grew into a great herd. He was the first to marry a girl from Lezgor, and then a Karachayan princess. His family grew rapidly, and his sons and servants were good supporters. Courage, wisdom and wealth made him a powerful man. He gradually became the leader of the Digorian people during the war, as he was able to resolve disputes peacefully. Elderly Aydaruk could not prevent the great trust and submission of his people to the stranger. Badel's descendants continued to collect surveillance fees, which became a hereditary duty of the Digorian people. There was a division of roles: the people worked in the land, raised animals, sowed grain for bread, and the descendants of Badel ruled the country and protected it from external enemies. Badel begat seven families which are descended from his sons and daughters. These were named after their ancestor "Badelites", meaning "the offspring of Badel". The Badelites grew even stronger when they gave their pastures to the community and charged the peasants with the use of the land in return for supervision fees. Thus, the descendants of the adventurous and courageous stranger became masters, and made the free community dependent on each other.

М. М. Блиев, Р. С. Бзаров, “История Осетии с древнейших времен до конца XIX в.” Владикавказ 2000. [translation A.Ć.]

The same legend says that there was another visitor named Badil-Madjar or Hungarian. He came to Honh-Digoria 10 or 11 generations from our time. Taking into account the average number of 25 years for one generation, it is possible to determine the time of its arrival at the end of the 16th century.

Newspaper „Терские ведомости”, 1870 No 48. [translation A.Ć.]

During her trip to the Caucasus, countess P. S. Uvarova made interesting comments about the descendants of Badel: “Abisals - Machometans consider themselves Hungarians or Huns. The founder of their family, Badil, according to legend, had three sons: Abisal, Tugan and Kubat, who became the ancestors of the famous digors' families.

Г. А. Кокиев, Крестьянская реформа в Северной Осетии. Орджоникидзе 1940, page. 12. [translation A.Ć.]

In the legend recorded by Mahabek Tuganov in 1907 in the village of Dur-Dur according to the account of the 80-year-old Janhot Tuganov, it is said that: “Badel came to Digoria from Magyar. In his homeland he was the protector of the heir to the throne and played a significant role. He also wanted to become the sole ruler of Magyar. This failed him. Opponents incited the nation against him and he had to flee into the Digorian mountains. His brother Basiat and young (heir) Ako were with him. Badel and Ako stayed in Digoria and Basiat escaped to Balkaria. Badelites come from the first one in Digoria, and the Basiates from the second one in Balkaria

В.Н. Кудашев, “Исторические сведения о кабардинском народе”. Киев 1913, page. 157. [translation A.Ć.]

Eurasian group

Members of this subgroup, conventionally called “Eurasian”, derived their ancestors from different regions of European and Asiatic continents (Belarus, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Serbia, Uzbekistan). Within this group, some participants, members of the Idel Family Tree DNA Project, belong to the haplogroup Q-BZ1000 and mostly live in Tatarstan.

The project participants are not ethnically related with the Balkaria/Digora and Székely (Szekler) subcluster. However most of these men are similar to Székely Y-DNA profile.

Székely (Szekler) group

The next subgroup consists of men from Székely community who belong to the Q-L712 haplogroup and its subclades. The research of Székely genetic genealogy deals with FTDNA Hungarian Bukovina project. Székelys is a Hungarian-speaking ethnic group, living in eastern part of Transylvania and demonstrating unique cultural characteristics, distinguishing it from other European nations. So far the origin of Székelys has remained unknown. Characteristic for Székely people are inter alia specific type of runes, called Old Hungarian Alphabet (Székely rovásírás) used before the year 1000 AD, unique pillar tombs called Kopjafa and characteristic Székely gates. The origin of the Székely people and their uniqueness remain a mystery even though several hypotheses have been put forward on the subject. The Székelys in their ancient legends claim that they are descendants of the Huns who, after the defeat of the mighty Hunnic king Attila, remained in Europe, changed the name from Huns to Székely and found asecluded place to hide from retribution from the previously conquered nations.

Székelys legends:

These Székelys were the remains of the Huns, who when they learned that the Hungarians had returned to Pannonia for the second time, went to the returnees on the border of Ruthenia and conquered Pannonia together.

Simon of Kéza, “Gesta Hunnorum et Hungarorum”, about 1282-1285, (Source: Wikipedia, ”Székelys”)

They were afraid of the western nations that they would suddenly attack them, so they went to Transylvania and did not call themselves Hungarians, but Székelys. The western clan hated the Huns in Attila's life. The Székelys are thus the remnants of the Huns, who remained in the mentioned field until the return of the other Hungarians. So when they knew that the Hungarians would return to Pannonia again, they hurried to Ruthenia to them, conquering the land of Pannonia together.

Mark of Kalt, “Chronicon Pictum”, 14th century, (Source: Wikipedia, ”Székelys”)

It is said that in addition to the Huns who escorted Csaba, from the same nation, three thousand more people retreating, cut themselves out of the said battle, remained in Pannonia, and first established themself in a camp called Csigla's Field. They were afraid of the Western nations which they harassed in Attila's life, and they marched to Transylvania, the frontier of the Pannonian landscape, and they did not call themselves Huns or Hungarians, but Siculus, in their own word Székelys, so that they would not know that they are the remnants of the Huns or Hungarians. In our time, no one doubts, that the Székelys are the remnants of the Huns who first came to Pannonia, and because their people do not seem to have been mixed with foreign blood since then, they are also more strict in their morals, they also differ from other Hungarians in the division of lands. They have not yet forgotten the Scythian letters, and these are not inked on paper, but engraved on sticks skillfully, in the way of the carving. They later grew into not insignificant people, and when the Hungarians came to Pannonia again from Scythia, they went to Ruthenia in front of them with great joy, as soon as the news of their coming came to them. When the Hungarians took possession of Pannonia again, at the division of the country, with the consent of the Hungarians, these Székelys were given the part of the country that they had already chosen as their place of residence.

Johannes Thuróczy, “Chronica Hungarorum”, about 1435-1490, (Source: Wikipedia, ”Székelys”)

Their forefathers descend in a straight line from the mythological prince Csaba, who would have been the son of Attila the Hun.The old Hunnic motifs and themes are still present in the Székely folklore.This fact is especially intriguing in the context of genetic genealogy because more and more evidence leads to the hypothesis of Hunnic origin, or very close relation to the Hunnic origin of the haplogroup Q-M25 and its subclades. Michael Maglio writes: “If I had to pose a theory, I would say that Attila is Q1a2 [Q-M25], part of the royal class of Huns living in Hungary. (...) The combined evidence of DNA, geography and history leads to the conclusion that at the end of the Hunnic Empire, the core East Asian Huns assimilated into the eastern European cultures. They left behind a strong genetic footprint in the same territory that they historically inhabited. The next time I’m asked, What about the Huns? I can point to Europe and say, They’re still there” (full article by M. Maglio).

Due to the aforementioned facts the Székely legends about the Hunnic origin, questioned by some researchers, may invite a slightly different reading.

The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Székely (Szekler) subcluster lived most likely about 1700-1800 years ago. For various reasons, this time can be combined with the Hunnic invasion of Europe about 370 AD. High level of differentiation within the Székely (Szekler) subcluster, distant time to the most recent common ancestor and a relatively large concentration of this haplogroup within one ethnic group may suggest a kind of center of this rare ancient and mysterious haplogroup in Europe.

Polish group

The Polish group includes participants with the Q-BZ351 polymorphisms. They seem to come from the common ancestor of the Székely group. The common ancestor of the Polish and Székely groups lived about 1700-1800 years ago. According the FTDNA a most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for Poles belonging to the Q-BZ351 haplogroup lived about 750 years ago, i.e. around 1270 AD. See also: Niezgoda Y-DNA Project

The most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of the Polish subcluster lived most likely about 750 years ago (ca. 1270 AD).

Middle Eastern group

The Middle Eastern group includes participants from Bulgaria, Iran and Turkey. They represent the Q-YP4416 and Q-F5005 polymorphisms and their subclades.

Ancient Y-DNA samples have matches with living people!

Genetic genealogy of the Q-L712 Y-DNA haplogroup can be supplemented by archeological research and archaic DNA tests. In the ancient burial grounds in Asia and Europe the archaeologists have discovered human remains, from which you can obtain genetic material (aDNA). Some samples belong to the haplogroup Q-L712 Y-DNA and to its subclades such as: Q-L715, Q-L713, Q-YP789 (all these have been for first time discovered in the genetic profile of the kit 180029 - member of our Q-L712 Focus Group), and also Q-BZ1000 and Q-PRX42 (see the table below. First discovered in the archaic DNA samples of the Pannonian Avars) and have matches with living people who are the Q-L712 Focus Group Project members.

Summary listing of archaeological DNA samples within haplogroup Q-L712

Sources for the research presented below can be found at the end under "links to the source material".

Sample	Archeological site	YBP	Culture	Estimated Y-DNA haplogroup	Remarks
RISE683	Okunevo, EMBA, Russia	4870-3920	Yamnaya	Q-FT414149	-
I8506	Kokcha 3, Uzbekistan, steppe, Grave N77	3614	Tazabagyab	Q-F4705*	-
RISE493	Sabinka 2, Russia	3551-3288	Karasuk	Q-FT414149	-
I12134	Swat Valley, Loebanr, Pakistan	2850	-	Q-F4705*	The skeletal remains are from secondary deposition of possibly manipulated burials
X3	Shirenzigou, China	2250	Post-Yanbulake Shirenzigou	Q-F4741	-
I7022	Uvs aimag cemetery, grave #11, Burial 7, Mongolia	2244	-	Q-FT414149	-
RISE600	Verh-Uimon, Russia	2450	Huns	Q-YP844	-
RISE601	Verh-Uimon, Russia	2450	Huns	Q-YP844	-
DA105	Uch-Kurbu, kurgan 1/4 (grave 4.), Kyrgyzstan, Tian Shan	1833±32	Huns	Q-L715	-
DA54	Keden, kurgan K70, Kyrgyzstan, Tian Shan	1693±31	Huns	Q-L715	-
DA74	Baskiya 2, kurgan 30, Kyrgyzstan, Tian Shan	1624±46	Huns	Q-YP1681*	Child, buried together with another individual
BRE004	Berel 2017_69, Kazakhstan	1633	Huns	Q-YP789	Warrior, buried together with horse in kurgan
BRE011	Berel 2018_90, Kazakhstan	1620	Huns	Q-YP789	Burial of an over 55 years old man in a stone box with a north western orientation
DA86	Boz-Adyr, kurgan 16, Kyrgyzstan, Tian Shan	1582±42	Turk	Q-L715	Warrior, buried together with horse
MM-61	Makó-Mikócsa-Halom, Hungary, Grave Nr 61	1402-1442	Early Avars	Q-YP832	The niche grave contained the skeletal remains of a middle-adult male with Europeid characteristics. The grave goods were a belt and shoes decorated with metal mounts, a sword decorated with silver plates, a bow, a quiver with arrowheads and some lamella of an armor. Besides the right leg of the dead, tools for wood, bone/horn and metal processing (e.g., saw, rasp) and uniquely, in a crucible made of iron plate semi-finished bone bow-applications were found. The grave can be dated to 580–620 CE.
MM-80	Makó-Mikócsa-Halom, Hungary, Grave Nr 80	1392-1422	Early Avars	Q-L715	The skeletal remains of a young adult male with Mongoloid skull characteristics were recovered from the niche grave. The skeleton of a horse with rosette-shaped silver harness ornaments, and partial skeletons of a cattle, a calf, and a sheep were found in the pit. The grave goods were a belt with silver ornaments of North Italian origin and weapons, i.e., a sword and a bow. The burial was dated to 600–630 CE.
ARK-29	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 29	1322-1223	Late Avars	Q-L715	The partially destroyed skeleton of a juvenile with male features was found in the grave. The high-prestige individual was buried in a coffin with a horse and a belt with gilded cast brass ornaments. The burial was dated to the second half of the late Avar period (i.e., between 760-810 CE). In addition, radiocarbon analysis dated the skeletal remains to a longer, partially overlapping interval (680-780 CE with 66% of probability).
ARK-36	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 36	1322-1223	Late Avars	Q-L713	The skeleton of a young adult male was found in the destroyed grave, in a wooden chamber. The burial contained the skeleton of a horse but did not contain any known, datable grave goods. The grave was dated to the Avar period based on radiocarbon data (660–770 CE with 66% of probability).
ARK-19	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 19	1322-1123	Late Avars	Q-L713	The grave contained the skeleton of a juvenile with male characteristics and without any grave finds.
ARK-24	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 24	1322-1123	Late Avars	Q-PRX42	The skeleton of a young adult male was found in the grave. The disturbed bones were in a layer mixed with burnt charcoal and ash. The high-prestige deceased was buried in a coffin with a horse, a belt with gilded cast brass ornaments and a saber. The burial was dated to the last phase of the late Avar period (supposed absolute date: 770-800 CE). Besides, radiocarbon analysis resulted in a longer, partially overlapping interval concerning the probable dating of the skeleton (680-780 CE with 66% of probability).
ARK-17	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 17	1322-1123	Late Avars	Q-PRX42	It was the disturbed grave of a sub-adult individual. The burial did not contain any known grave goods.
ARK-6	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 6	1322-1223	Late Avars	Q-PRX42	It was the disturbed grave of a sub-adult individual. The burial did not contain any known grave goods.
ARK-50	Árkus Homokbánya, Hungary, Grave Nr 50	1222-1192	Late Avars	Q-BZ100	The strongly disturbed grave contained the skeleton of an adult male and a horse. A bone bow plate and a belt mount were found in a secondary position. The assemblage was dated to the late 9th and first half of the 10th century CE.
SEEurope9	Central Bulgaria	1100	Avar, Bulgar	Q-L712	-

Phylogenetic tree of Q-L712 Y-DNA haplogroup with aDNA samples indicated

			Q-L712 (SEEurope9) formed 16000 ybp, TMRCA 13000 ybp



	Q-F4531		Q-Y11671
	Q-F4531		Q-Y11671

	Q-F4705 (I8506)		Q-YP828
	Q-F4705 (I8506)		Q-YP828

	Q-F4741 (X3)
	Q-F4741 (X3)


		Q-YP832 (MM-61) formed 13000 ybp, TMRCA 10700 ybp		Q-FT394000
		Q-YP832 (MM-61) formed 13000 ybp, TMRCA 10700 ybp		Q-FT394000

		Q-L715 (DA105, DA54, DA86, and ARK-29, MM-80) formed 10700 ybp, TMRCA 4900 ybp		Q-FT414149 (RISE683, RISE493, I7022)
				Q-FT414149 (RISE683, RISE493, I7022)

		Q-YP844 (RISE600, RISE601) formed 4900 ybp, TMRCA 3800 ybp



Q-L713 (ARK-17, ARK-19, ARK-36) formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 3800 ybp			Q-YP1677 formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 1300 ybp
			Q-YP1677 formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 1300 ybp

Q-YP789 (BRE004, BRE011) formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 1950 ybp


		Q-BZ351 formed 1950 ybp




		Q-PRX42 (ARK- 6, ARK- 24)




		Q-BZ1000 (ARK-50) formed 1950 ybp

The above mentioned arguments lead to the conclusion about the possible Hunnic origin of men belonging to Q-L712 Y-DNA and its subclades and also about close links between the project participant's ancestors and the ancient Hunnic, Hunnic-Sarmatian and later also the Avars culture.

Attention! New book by Karl Oskar Högström on genetic genealogy and Hunnic roots in Europe.

The book by the co-administrator of our project, Karl Oskar Högström, entitled: "The Huns in Scandinavia: A new approach centered around modern DNA" is worth recommending. The author puts forward the thesis and supports it with historical, archaeological and genetic arguments that the Q-L527 Y-DNA haplogroup widespread among men in Sweden is a Hunnic relic in Scandinavia. Karl Oskar Högström also makes arguments in favor of the Hunnic roots of the Q-L712 Y-DNA haplogroup with its subgroups Q-L715, Q-YP789 and Q-BZ351. The author's hypothesisis is also supported by the rich literature of Scandinavian sagas, legends and myths related to Hun's presence and migration in former Scandinavia.

Excerpts from the book are available here.

Note on the Amazon website:

“Karl O. Högström is a genetic genealogist and an admin of several group projects linked to FamilyTreeDNA. Through his work as an admin, he has acquired a high level of knowledge about genealogical DNA testing and Y-DNA. In this nonfiction book, Karl O. Högström sets out to investigate why some men in southern Scandinavia belong to Y-DNA lineages that can be traced back to southern Siberia and Inner Asia. The author argues that the accumulated data suggests that a group of equestrian warriors undertook a northward migration from southeastern Europe to Scandinavia in the early 400s CE. The author further argues that these men were a group of Huns and that the myths about Odin are mythologized memories of these events.

Professor Emeritus Peter B. Golden:

You have presented aplausible reconstruction. As with all reconstructions, there are some speculative leaps, but you have not gone beyond acceptable bounds and willingly note that other interpretations have been suggested. It is an interesting study and worth publishing.

Professor Kristian Kristiansen:

Et flot arbejde, som absolut bør publiceres (Agreat accomplishment that definitely deserves to be published.)".

Links to the source material:

Ancient DNA maps based on public data set on www.haplogroup.info

Ancient human DNA map

Anthrogenica

В. А. Кузнецов,Археологические данные о происхождении дигорских Баделят

"BioRxiv",Whole genome analysis sheds light on the genetic origin of Huns, Avars and conquering Hungarians

"BioRxiv",Whole genome analysis... Suplementary information

Chuan-Chao Wang,Dispersals ofthe Siberian Y‑chromosome haplogroup Q in Eurasia

M. Maglio, Attila, Native Americans and DNA: A Hunny Story

“Nature”, Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia