FamilyTreeDNA RAMER Public RESULTS Pages


Click to review the DNA data Colorized Chart

• This first portion of the Results section of the web-site is reserved for reporting on the most significant generalized findings that we have obtained to date. These findings will be presented by Haplogroup. More specific detailed results will be set forth in the next section, again organized by Haplogroup.

RAMER Family DNA Project Results – Significant Generalized Findings

At this point in the project there are three sets of extraordinary findings. They involve findings made relative to three separate Haplogroups:

• Haplogroup I-M170 – The RIMERS of Cabarrus and Rowan Counties of NC & Matching
• Haplogroup R1b – (M269) – RAMER/RAYMER - From 9 Families to One
• Haplogroup R1b – (M269) – RÖMER/RAMER/RAYMER of Hesse, PA, Markham ON, KY & IL

I - (M170) The RIMERs of Cabarrus Co., NC & Related

One of the most surprising findings provided by the DNA data gathered by this project is that the traditional understanding of the structure of the family of Johan Nicholas RÖMER/RIMER/RYMER Jr. (1743-1832) has been incorrect. What has been seen as one cohesive family is, in reality, two separate Haplogroups with distinctly different genetic profiles.

This haplogroup consists of nine men, seven of which are descended from a common paternal ancestor. The remaining two are reported as descended from others, but they both exhibit the same genetic profile as the first seven.

R1b – (M269) RAMER/RAYMER - From 9 Families to One

Two very significant conclusions are validated:

First:

The “headline” for this haplogroup is the above title – that the DNA findings of this project conclusively prove that nine families that have been thought of as separate entities are not – they are simply nine parts of one very large and quite diverse family.

Those nine families are now identified as the nine branches of this haplogroup. They are:

• Branch# 1 – Descendants of Mathias RÖMER of Berks Co., PA
• Branch# 2 – John Adam RÖMER (b. 27 May 1766; d. 31 Mar 1845) of PA & Coshocton Co., OH 
• Branch# 3 – Johan Nicholas RÖMER/RYMER/RIMER Jr. of PA and Rowan Co., NC
• Branch# 4 – George RAYMER (b. Bef. 1770; d. Bet 1836-1840) of NC and Davidson Co., TN
• Branch# 5 – Henry RAMER (1750-1835) of PA, NC and Dearborn Co., IN
• Branch# 6 – The RAYMERs of Cheatham Co., TN
• Branch# 7 – John RAMER (1780-1860) of Covington Co., AL
• Branch# 8 – John Wesley RAMER (ca 1797- 1874) of McNairy Co., TN
• Branch# 9 – Philip RAMER/RAYMER (b. ca 1770 – 1845) of Hickman Co., KY

In other words, it is proven that all of these families are descendants of one common paternal ancestor!

It must be stressed that this does NOT mean that one man was the father of all of the men listed above as the progenitor of the lines. That was clearly NOT the case. It does mean that each of the above men were descended from the same (as of now, unidentified) man.

Whether or not the paternal ancestral lines will ever be traced back to the common ancestor for all of these men is an open question. Clearly much research, testing and luck will be required.

Second:

Research done as part of the work involved in the findings noted above, led us to the identification of a man known as Adam RAMER who we found living in NC, several places in TN; then MS and finally AL.

Our findings strongly suggest, but do not prove to a Genealogical Proof Standard, that he is the father of John Wesley RAMER of Branch 8 (above) as well as John Wesley’s brother, Andrew Boyd RAMER. The findings that provide the basis for this conclusion are presented in a document titled, "Adam RAIMER - Findings" which can be found in our Background section.

R1b - (M269) RAMER/RAYMER/RÖMER of Hesse, PA, Markham ON, KY & IL

Four findings can be presented as proven:

1. Phillip RÖMER, referred to as the Immigrant of 1727, is confirmed as the progenitor of the lines of:


1. Abraham RÖMER (b. 15 Aug 1760, Lancaster Co., PA; d. 21 Sep 1846, Markham, York Co., Ontario, Canada; bur. RAMER Cemetery, Markham, Ontario, Canada); This line is largely of the Mennonite faith and was one of that faith that populated Markham, Ontario right after the Revolutionary War.


2. Johannes RÖMER (b. 9 Feb 1763, Lancaster Co., PA; d. 9 Oct 1838, Buffalo Twp., Perry Co., PA; bur. Buffalo Twp., Perry Co., PA); This line also is largely of the Mennonite faith and was a primary force in the settlement of Elkhart Co., IN and British Columbia, Canada.


3. Phillip RÖMER, (ca. 1765, Lancaster Co., PA; d. 1829, Buffalo Twp., Perry Co., PA); Phillip married a good Lutheran gal and in doing so left the Mennonite faith. Much of this line moved to what is now the western suburbs of Chicago.


2. The same Phillip RÖMER, referred to as the Immigrant of 1727, is confirmed as the father of Abraham RÖMER/RAYMER (b. ca. 1736, Lancaster Co., PA; d. 06 Apr 1809, Arkansas Co. AR), often referred to as “Pioneer Abe RAYMER of KY”.


3. Both the genetic-line of the 3 brothers (#1 above) and the genetic-line of Pioneer Abraham RAYMER of KY (#2 above), are proven as sharing a common ancestor (not yet identified) with Georg Conrad RÖMER (b. 17 Aug 1835, Langd, Hessen, Germany; d.17 Jul 1907, McKeesport, PA. Conrad immigrated to America in 1857 and settled in Allegheny Co., PA. Living descendants using the name “RAMER” are spread from PA to CA.


4. No other lines from this haplogroup have yet been found. On the contrary, lines in NC, TN and GA which several researchers have claimed emanated from these lines are proven to be distinctly unrelated to it.

Family Tree Links

• Kit # 79120     John Ramer - [Click Kit # for Tree]
  Kit # 105839     Danny Raymer - [Click Kit # for Tree]

RAMER Family DNA Project Results – Specific Detailed Findings

G - (M201) Thomas RYMER (1774 - 1821) York, England

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 259193 with the surname of RYMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was a Thomas RYMER, b. 06/03/1774 and died 08/29/1821in England.

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I - (M170) The RIMERs of Cabarrus Co., NC & Related

This haplogroup consists of nine men, seven of which are descended from a common paternal ancestor, Johan Nicholas RIMER/RYMER/RHYMER Jr. The remaining two are reported as descended from others, but they both exhibit the same genetic profile as the first seven.

Kit Number     Surname        Paternal Ancestor            Location        Haplogroup

139481         RIMER           Jacob RHYMER¹             NC              I-M170

139482         RIMER           Jacob RHYMER¹             NC              I-M170

N42172         RIMER           Jacob RHYMER¹             NC              I-M170

N116757       RIMER           Jacob RHYMER¹             NC              I-M170

901119         RIMER           Jacob RHYMER¹             NC              I-M170

B455786       GANDOLPH⁵   Jacob RHYMER¹             NC              I-M170

178137         RIMER           Jacob RIMER/RYMER²     NC              I-M170

207273         RHYMER        James D RHYMER³          NC               I-M170

119226         REIMER         Bartholomaus REIMER⁴   Germany     I-M170

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NOTATIONS:

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The DNA results for the first eight men of this haplogroup exhibit a striking finding – a distinctly different genetic profile than other descendants of Johan Nicholas RIMER, of Rowan Co., NC. At this point in time, we cannot explain this difference. It is worth noting that this surprise finding is from not just one, but three of the reported sons of Johann Nicholas RIMER Jr.

The similarity of the profiles of the first eight of these men with the descendant of Bartholomaus REIMER should not be seen as proof of relatedness.  It may simply be coincidental. Additional research and testing must be done before a definitive statement can be made.

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I1 (M253) Henry Harmon Robert Ramer 1819-1884 PA

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 198748 with the surname of RAMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was a Henry Harmon Robert ROEMER/RAYMER/RAMER who was born in Pennsylvania in 1819 and who died in 1884. His parents remain unknown.

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I2a1b - (M436) RIMER/RIMMER of England

This haplogroup consists of two men with the surnames of Rimer and Rimmer, both of whom claim that their earliest known paternal ancestor lived in England.

Kit Number     Surname        Paternal Ancestor          Dates                    Location        Haplogroup

188871          RIMER         Nicholas RIMER¹         ca1660-1717     England         I-S606

428175          RIMMER       James RIMMER²         1816-1876        England         I-Y13074

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NOTATIONS:

      ¹ Jacob Nicholas Rimer, c.1660-1717, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
      ² Jacob James Rimmer, b. ca. 1816 in Southport, Lancashire, England

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We are not aware of any traditional genealogical research that documents a familial relationship between these two men.

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I2a1b - (M436) William Thomas RAIMER (1869 - 1950) of AR

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 112649 with the surname of RAIMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was a William Thomas RAIMER, b. 9 Sep 1869 in Spadra, Johnson Co., AR; d. 6 Aug 1950 in Okemah, Okfuskee, OK. Further, he reports that William was married to a Belle HOOTEN, b. in 1871 in KY.

Find-A-Grave.com shows this man is buried at Rock Creek Cemetery in Okfuskee Co., AR.

Ancestry.com shows 144 public and 30 private trees for this man and the vast majority of them present William’s parents as a Charles Francis RAIMER, b. 1847; d. 1869 and his second wife, Julia Ann (nee CARTER). Charles is shown as having first married a Mary Jane LADD, with that marriage ending in an annulment.

The common story goes that Charles left Johnson County, AR to visit a brother in OH, and never returned, although his horse did.

We would very much appreciate another descendant of William Thomas or a possible descendant of Charles or a sibling of Charles who would be willing to test. If anyone has information that would help this happen, please contact one of the administrators of this project.

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I2a2a - (M223) James Paul RYMER

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 175488 with the surname of RYMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was Bolser RYMER, (b. 15 Feb 1771 in PA; d. 1845 in Wythe Co., VA and bur. in the St. Paul's Lutheran Church Cemetery, Rural Retreat, Wythe Co., VA) and his second wife Catherine ELLER.

This would be the same Bolser RYMER mentioned in the Haplogroup “I” above. In that case, six of the participants were descended from Jacob RHYMER, who was a son of BOLSER and his first wife, Susannah (nee WARD); a sixth was descended from Jacob, brother of Bolser and son of Johann; and a seventh was descended from Peter, brother of Bolser and son of Johann.

When we compare the results of Kit# 175488, reportedly a descendant of Bolser, appearing last in the following chart, to the seven from Haplogroup “I” the results are striking. As in any colorized Y-Chart, the colored values vary from the norm for the group.

There is an extremely wide divergence in genetic profile. They clearly do NOT share a common ancestor.

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J1 - (M267) Josef/Yosef Hague REMER (1823-1863)

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 198820 with the surname of REMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was a Josef/Yosef Hague REMER, (b. 1823, Gorlice, Malopolska, Poland; d. 1863, Gorlice, Galicia, Austria) who was married to Katharina HEPNER (b. 1818, Gorlice, Malopolska, Poland; d. 1863, Gorlice, Galicia, Austria). Their son, Hirsch Lieb REMER, aka Harry L. REMER, (b. 14 Jun 1860, Gorlice, Galicia, Austria-Hungary; d. 30 Oct 1924, Wheeling, Ohio Co., WV; bur. Northwood Cemetery, Cambridge, Guernsey Co., OH), immigrated to the US in ca. 1880.

 

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J2 - (M172) Daniel REAMER (1775-1861) - PA & VA

 

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 402253 with the surname of REAMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was a Daniel REAMER (b. 10 Feb 1775, in Berks Co., PA; d. 4 Jan 1861, Rockingham Co., VA). He married Mary “Polly” COFFMAN/KAUFFMAN (1780-1860) in Shenandoah, VA on 4 Aug 1802. They had 4 known children.

The descendant believes that Daniel was himself a descendant of one of the three men who arrived at Philadelphia on the ship Loyal Judith in 1732. This is supported by records from the Metz church of Rockland Twp., Berks County, PA which show that a male child was born on the date given above with the parents of John Peter and Regina Margaretha (nee Walter) ROEMER. Further, John Peter is broadly accepted as a son of Johann Nicklaus RÖMER/ROEMER, one of the 1732 Immigrants.

However, that is, simply put, not the case. The man of this haplogroup does not present a genetic profile consistent with that of a descendant of the men arriving on the ship Loyal Judith.

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J2 - (M172) REAMER/RAMER of Westmorland Co./Greene Co., PA and Hardin Co., OH

 

This haplogroup consists of two men. One, Kit# 128957, with the surname of REAMER presents his earliest known ancestor as Henry REAMER of Westmoreland Co., PA who was married to a “Judith”. The other participant, Kit # 201252, with the surname of RAMER, presented his earliest known ancestor as Jacob RAMER (b. 1806 in PA; d. 9 Apr 1873, Washington Twp., Hardin Co., OH); bur. Dunkirk Cemetery, Dunkirk, Hardin Co., OH).

The situation in this case was revealed to be different from some of the others discussed in this “Results” section when their Y-37 results were reported by FTDNA. They were a perfect match.

Further research has shown that the “Henry REAMER” above is more commonly referred to as Henry RAYMER (b. 1756, in Berks Co., PA; d. 12 Jan 1823, in Westmoreland Co., PA; bur. German Cemetery, Hempfield Twp., Westmoreland Co., PA) who was married to Judith LACKEY (b. 1756, Berks Co., PA; d. 11 May 1811, Westmoreland Co.).

The Jacob RAMER from above, is the Jacob RAMER who lived in Green Co., PA before moving to Coshocton Co., OH (where a number of siblings resided) and then moved on to Hardin Co., OH before dying there. He was married to Nancy Catherine CRAGO IN Greene Co., PA ca. 1836.

Both Henry and Jacob are progenitors of significant branches of the family. Both of these men and both of these branches of the family are significant in the history of PA.

Westmoreland Co. and Greene Co. are adjacent to each other in the southwest corner of the state of Pennsylvania.

Despite the perfect match and even with extensive research efforts, we are, as yet, unable to specify how these two men are related.

 

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R1a - (M198 & M512) Phillip ROEMER of PA

 

This haplogroup consists of one man, Kit# 157803 with the surname of REYMER, who reports that his earliest known paternal ancestor was a Philip ROEMER (b. ca. 1760 in Germany; d. 27 May 1831 in Greencastle, Franklin Co., PA; bur. in the German Reformed Cemetery, Greencastle, Franklin Co., PA). He enlisted in the Continental Line army on 25 Mar 1877 in Cumberland Co., PA. Due to his age, he served as a “Fifer”. He appears on a muster roll at Valley Forge on 7 Apr 1778.

After the Revolutionary War ended, Philip settled in Franklin Co., PA, where he married his wife Elizabeth STATLER (1745-1849) during Dec 1792. Philip and Elizabeth are credited with 12 children.

Descendants formed the REYMER and Brothers Confectionary Company of Pittsburgh, one of the nation’s largest candy producers in the country at that time.

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R1b - (M343 & M269) George J. RAMER of Berks Co., PA

This haplogroup consists of two men. One, Kit# 181290, with the surname of RAMER presents his earliest known paternal ancestor as George J. RAMER (b. ca 1811, Contwig, Südwestpfalz, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany; d. ca 1880, Minersville, Schuylkill Co., PA), who married Elizabeth HESS (b. ca. 1815; d. 16 Nov 1862).

The second man, Kit# 181428, as the second cousin of the first, has the same surname and, of course, the same cited earliest ancestor. This close relationship is entirely consistent with the fact that they were perfect matches at Y-37.

Descendants of George J. Ramer still live in Schuylkill Co., PA to this day.

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R1b - (M343 & M269) Robert RIMER/RYMER of MO & KS (1850-1893)

 

This haplogroup consists of two men, both with the surname of RIMER, and both reporting his earliest known paternal ancestor was a Robert RIMER born 1850 in St Joseph Co. MO and died 1893 in Pottawatomie Co., KS.

The first of these men is a RIMER with Kit# 395230 and the second is again a RIMER with Kit# 482374. These men are second cousins, once removed, which is consistent with the fact that they were perfect matches at Y-37.

To date, we are unaware of anyone who has tied the above Robert RIMER to his parents.

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R1b - (M343 & M269) RYMERs of Scotland & Buncombe Co., NC

 

This haplogroup consists of two men. It must be noted that this family is unique among those in the family’s DNA project – it is the only one that is not of Germanic origin, (German or Swiss). They are from Scotland.

The first participant, Kit# 246323, with the surname of RYMER presents his earliest known paternal ancestor as Walter RYMER (b. 29 Nov 1719, St. Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland; d. 1783, Kinghorn, Fife, Scotland) who married Margret GOURLY (b. 29 Jan 1723, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland; d. 1756). A son of Walter and Margret, David P. RYMER Sr. was the first of the family to immigrate to America, settling in Buncombe Co., North Carolina.

The second participant, Kit# 715661, is a second cousin, once removed, of the first. They are perfect matches at Y-37.

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R1b - (M343 & M269) ROEMERs from Alsace

There are three participants in this haplogroup. The first, Kit# 33043, provided the basis for the title used for the haplogroup. He presented as his earliest known paternal ancestor a Georges/George RÖMER/ROEMER, b. 1730 in Alsace.

After a through study, we have concluded that the actual name of this man was Chrétien ROEMER. After a hundred and thirty-five years and a long string of sons named Chrétien ROEMER one by that name left Alsace for America with his wife and three sons. Unfortunately, Chrétien died during the voyage and his wife, Marguerite, is said to have died shortly after arrival in NY in 1865.

The oldest of the three boys, once again, born as Chrétien (b. 28 Dec 1842, Dettwiller, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France) became head of the family and led his brothers to Bowling Green, Warren Co., KY, where he and his brothers, Georges (b. 23 Aug 1848, in Dettwiler) and Henri (b. 11 Aug 1850 in same) appeared in their first US census in 1870.

Chrétien took the name Christian, Georges became George and Henri became Henry. All three married and raised families in Bowling Green and Louisville KY. The line has grown and prospered.

The other two participants are third cousins to each other. The first, with the surname of RAYMER (Kit# 179719) and the second with the surname REYMER (Kit# 183439) are both descended from a Philip ROEMER, (b. ca 1758, in Germany) who served in the Continental Line during the Revolutionary War as a Fifer due to his age. After the war he settled in Franklin Co., PA where he married and started his family.

Descendants of Philip started the Reymer Brothers Candy Company of Pittsburgh which became “one of the largest confectionary houses in the world”.

There is no obvious familial link between the descendants of Philip and those of Chrétien.

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R1b – (M269) RAMER/RAYMER - From 9 Families to One

 

There are nineteen participants of our project that are in the R1b Haplogroup. Those 19 belong to 9 different branches or sub-branches. Each of the 9 represents what has previously been thought of as a separate family. To make it easier for interested parties to identify the ID of each branch, we are using the traditional name of the family as its identifier here.

Branch# 1 – Descendants of Mathias RÖMER of Berks Co., PA

• There is one participant with the surname RAMER, Kit# 128837, in this branch. On the Y-37 he is considered a “match” to all of the other members of R1b. There are 0 degrees of difference with 6 of the others; 1 degree of difference with 6 others; 2 degrees for 5; 4 degrees for 1.


• This man and his entire paternal lineage have lived entire lives within about 20 miles of where Mathias lived in Berks Co.

Branch# 2 – John Adam RÖMER (b. 27 May 1766; d. 31 Mar 1845) of PA and Coshocton Co., OH

• There is only one participant with the surname RAMER, Kit# 466952, in this branch as well. He is considered a “match” to all but one of the others in R1b on the Y-37. He has 0 degrees of difference with 1 other; 1 degree with 9; 2 degrees with 4; and 3 degrees with 3.

Branch# 3 – Johan Nicholas RÖMER/RYMER/RIMER Jr. of PA and Rowan Co., NC

• There is only one man with the surname RAYMER, Kit# N5525 in this branch. He is considered a match to 5 of the others on the Y-67 and all of the others in R1b on Y-37. There are 2 degrees of difference with 7; 3 degrees with 6; and 4 with 5.


• He has and his entire paternal line have lived within 26 miles of where Johann Nicholas lived in Rowan. He is a descendant of Johan Nicholas (b. 1743) via his son, Michael.

Branch# 4 – George RAYMER (b. Bef. 1770; d. Bet 1836-1840) of NC and Davidson Co., TN

• Many researchers believe that George was the son of Johan Nicholas Jr. of that same name. However, that has not yet been proven. Once again, there is only one man named RAYMER, Kit# 144060, in this branch. Once again, he matches all of the others in R1b. There are 0 degrees of difference with 6; 1 degree with 6; 2 degrees with 5 and 4 degrees with 1.

Branch# 5 – Henry RAMER (1750-1835) of PA, NC and Dearborn Co., IN

• Henry RAMER was born in PA and enlisted there in 1778 to serve in the Continental Line Army during the Revolutionary War He served under the command of Count PULASKI in North Carolina until 1780. He remained in NC (Lincoln Co.) after his discharge and married and raised his family of 10 children there. In 1812, he moved his family first to OH and then to Dearborn Co., IN where he died in 1835.


• There are three of the project’s participants in this branch:


• Individual# 1, with the surname RAMER, Kit# 122225, matches all but one of the others in R1b. With 3 of the others he has 1 degree of difference; with 9, 2 degrees; with 3, 3 degrees and with 2, 4 degrees.


• Individual# 2, with the surname RAMER, Kit# 217133, matches 17 of the 18 others in R1b. With 1 of the others he has 0 degrees of difference; with 9, 1 degree; with 4, 2 degrees; and with three, 3 degrees.


• Individual# 3, with the surname RAMER, Kit# 116891, matches all but one of the others in R1b. With 2 there is one degree of difference; with 8, two degrees; 4 with 3 degrees; and 3 with 4 degrees.

Branch# 6 – The RAYMERs of Cheatham Co., TN

• John (b. ca 1804, NC; d. 9 Aug 1859) and Henry (b. ca 1798, NC; d. 1873) RAYMER were brothers who both fathered families considered foundational for Cheatham Co., TN. They arrived early in TN and moved around until settling in Cheatham Co. Once again, many researchers believe them to be of the RIMER/RAYMER family of Rowan County, but again no one has been able to prove that.


• There are seven participants from these two families in the project.


• Individual# 1, with the surname CLAIBORNE, Kit # 69908, this participant, like the two others who share his surname, are descendants of a John and Elizabeth (nee AGE) RAYMER. He matches all but one of those in R1b. With 3 there is 1 degree of difference; with 10 there are two degrees, with 2 there are three degrees; and with 3 there are 4.


• Individual# 2, with the surname RAYMER, Kit# 790035, is again a descendant of John and Elizabeth, through their son, James Wiley RAYMER. He matches all of the others in R1b. With 6 perfect matches; 6 with only 1 degree of difference; 5 with 2 degrees; and one with 4.


• Individual# 3, with the surname RAMER, Kit# 144232, is a descendant of Henry RAYMER. He matches all of the others in R1b, with 6 perfectly; 6 with 1 degree, 5 with 2 degrees and 1 at 4.


• Individual# 4, with the surname CLAIBORNE, Kit# 135997, is a descendant of John and Elizabeth. He matches all but one of the others in R1b. One perfect match; 10 at one degree; 3 at 2; and 4 at 3.


• Individual# 5, with the surname CLAIBORNE, Kit# 70103, is a descendant of John and Elizabeth. He matches 3 of the participants in R1b on the Y-111. {More on this later!} He also matches 4 on the Y-67 and all but one on the Y-37. He has one perfect match; 10 at one degree of difference; 3 at 2; and 3 at 3.


• Individual# 6, with the surname RAYMER, Kit# B673481, is another descendant of John and Elizabeth. He matches 17 or the other 18 in R1b, with 9 at 1 degree of difference; 4 at 2 and 4 at 3.


• Individual# 7, with the surname RAYMER, Kit# 174559, is the second of our descendants of Henry and Elizabeth (nee SMITH) RAYMER. He matches only 8 of the other 18 in R1b and all are at 4 degrees of difference.

Branch# 7 – John RAMER (1780-1860) of Covington Co., AL

• John RAMER (b. ca. 1780 in NC; d. Aft 22 Aug 1860, Covington Co., NC) and his wife Barbary (nee UNKNOWN) (b. ca 1782; d. Aft. 7 Aug 1870) are the progenitors of the large and thriving line of RAMERs of largely AL and TX.
• 
  
• They are also well known for the number of researchers who have miss-represented their identities. There are literally dozens of family trees published on the internet that claim that the man in Covington Co. is the same as the Mennonite man of that name who lived his entire life in Lancaster and Perry Counties in PA. They also present the Barbary of Covington as the Barbara BURKHOLDER, the wife of the PA John RAMER. {The PA couple is discussed in Haplogroup R1b - (M269) – RÖMER/RAMER/RAYMER of Hesse…}


• We only have two participants in the project from this branch, but that is enough to demonstrate the genetic proof of the identity of this clan.


• Individual One, Kit# 200818, is a descendant of John RAMER Jr. and his wife Nancy SUMMERFORD, and is of the portion of the family that did not go to TX. He matches all 18 of the others in R1b, with 6 matched perfectly, 6 with one degree of difference; 5 with 2 and 1 with 4.


• Individual 2. Kit# 71554, is a descendant of John William RAMER and is of the portion of the family that did go to TX. He matches only 4 of the 18 others in R1b, with one being a perfect match; 1 having one degree of difference; 1 having 2 degrees; and 1 having three.

Branch# 8 – John Wesley RAMER (ca 1797- 1874) of McNairy Co., TN

• That this branch is found to be a part of this haplogroup is not surprising, but we have found something that really is. But before we get to that, we should address some basics.


• Until now, no one has proven where John Wesley RAMER (b. ca 1787; d. Aug 1874, McNairy Co., TN) came from when he arrived at McNairy Co.


• It has been known that his wife was Elizabeth LAMBERT (b. ca 1800, AL; d. ca 1835, TN). It has been known that this couple were married ca. 1817 in AL. It is also known that John Wesley had a brother, Andrew Boyd RAMER (b. ca 1805 in AL or TN; d. 1870, Van Buren Co., AR) whose wife was Eliza PURSELL (b. ca 1810, AL or TN; d. 1870, Van Buren Co., AR).


• Many of the members of this haplogroup remained in TN and many others moved to AR.


• Two of the projects participants are found to be in this branch. The first, with the surname of RAMER, Kit# 180705, is a descendant of one who moved to AR. He matches all but one of the 18 in R1b, with 9 at one degree; 5 at two and 3 at three.


• The second participant, Kit# 919821, also a RAMER, is also descended from one who relocated to AR. He is also a 3rd cousin-once removed of Kit# 180705. This man matches two of the others in this haplogroup at the Y-111 level; 4 at Y-67 and all 18 at Y-37 with 6 perfect matches, 6 at one degree of difference; 5 at two and 1 at four.

Branch# 9 – Philip RAMER/RAYMER (b. ca 1770 – 1845) of Hickman Co., KY

• The progenitor of our last branch that makes up this haplogroup is Philip RAMER/RAYMER, who it is said came to TN from NC. He married Susannah “Sadie” WHITE on 30 Jan 1845 before his final move to Moscow, Hickman County, KY. This couple had 6 known children and many descendants still live in Hickman Co.


• We have one participant in the project from this lineage. Kit# 879180, with the surname of RAMER, At the Y-111 he matches two of the 18 in R1b; at Y-67 he matches 4 and at Y-37 he matches all but one, with 7 at two degrees distance; 6 at 3 and 4 at four degrees of distance.

In conclusion, the above conclusively proves that all 9 of these families descend from one common, albeit unknown, common ancestor.

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R1b - (M269) RAMER/RAYMER/RÖMER of Hesse, PA, Markham ON, KY & IL

   Researcher: John Ramer Send Email
   Researcher: Danny Raymer Send Email

There are eight project participants in four distinct family branches of this haplogroup:

Branch #1 – Hesse, Germany

• One participant, Kit# 53253, belongs in this branch. His earliest known paternal line ancestor was a Conrad Philipp RÖMER (b. 1768, Hesse, Germany; d. 4 Feb 1828, Hesse, Germany). Georg Conrad RÖMER, (b. 17 Aug 1835, Hesse; d. 17 Jul 1907, McKeesport, Allegheny Co., PA) a grandson of Conrad Philipp, was the first of this branch to immigrate to the United States. He did so in 1857.
• The other three branches, or more properly sub-branches, all flow from a man we refer to as Philip RÖMER, the Immigrant of 1727, He arrived in the US at Philadelphia on 16 Oct 1727 on the ship Friendship, of Bristol, England. He settled in Lancaster Co., PA and lived there until his death. He and his wife are confirmed to have had at least two children, sons Philip and Abraham. They were of the Mennonite faith.

Branch #2 – RAYMERs of PA, KY and AR

• Two participants belong in this branch, Kit# 86727 and Kit# 105839. They are both descendants of Abraham, the son of the immigrant Philip, who became known as “Pioneer Abe RAYMER of KY”. Born in Lancaster Co., PA in 1735, he left PA before the start of the Revolutionary War. He arrived in Kentucky by 1780 and settled near Severns Valley near Elizabeth town, with 2 sons, Abraham Jr. and Michael. He and his first wife had 9 children. After his first wife died, he married a widow, Sevalah LINCKING, in 1783 and had one more child, a daughter, Susanna. He moved again, settling in eastern Arkansas by 1802 and dying in Arkansas Co., AR on 6 Apr 1809.
• This family was not Mennonite.


• The brother of Abraham of KY, named Philip, who had been born ca 1737 in Lancaster Co., PA remained in that county until his death. He and his wife had at least 3 children – sons who were the progenitors of the last three branches, Abraham, Johannes and Philip.

Family Tree Links for Branch #2

• Kit # 105839    Danny Raymer - Send an Email to Discuss or Request a Copy (dannylraymer@gmail.com)
• Generation/Location/Timeline:
•      Danny Raymer   Birth: Kansas City, Jackson, Missouri   1950
•      James Myron Raymer Sr   Birth: Climax Springs, Camden, Missouri   1924
•      Orville Dobson Raymer   Birth: Springs, Camden, Missouri   1901
•      William Edward Raymer   Birth: Climax Springs, Camden, Missouri   1879
•      Lee Ander Raymer   Birth: Grayson County, Kentucky   1849
•      James Michael Raymer   Birth: Grayson County, Kentucky   1816
•      Michael Raymer   Birth: Pennsylvania   1765
•      Abraham Raymer Sr   Birth: Lancaster County, Pennsylvania   1735
•      Philip Römer   Birth: Europe   1690-1711

Branch #3 – RÖMERs of Ontario, Canada

• There are two project participants in this branch – Kit# 102476 and 156314. These 3rd cousins-once removed have 3 degrees of difference.
• This branch is represented by the family of Abraham RÖMER (b. 15 Aug 1760, Lancaster Co., PA; d. 21 Sep 1846, Markham, York Co., Ontario, Canada; bur. RAMER Cemetery, Markham, Ontario, Canada); This line is largely of the Mennonite faith and was one of that faith that populated Markham, Ontario right after the Revolutionary War. This Abraham became known in Canada as “Pioneer Abe of Markham”.

Branch #4 - Johannes RÖMER of Lancaster, PA

• There are two project participants in this branch, Kit# 79120 and Kit# 839974. These 4th cousins-twice removed have one degree of difference on the Y-37. Johannes RÖMER was born 9 Feb 1763, Lancaster Co., PA; died 9 Oct 1838, Buffalo Twp., Perry Co., PA; buried Buffalo Twp., Perry Co., PA. This line also is largely of the Mennonite faith and was a primary force in the settlement of Elkhart Co., IN and British Columbia, Canada. Descendants remain active in the Mennonite faith in PA, IN, MO, and BC.

Family Tree Links for Branch #4

• Kit # 79120   John Ramer - Send an Email to Discuss or Request a Copy (johnramer@sbcglobal.net)

Branch #5 - Phillip RÖMER of Lancaster, PA

• There is one project participant, Kit# 363880, in this branch. This Phillip RÖMER was born in 1765, Lancaster Co., PA; died 1829, Buffalo Twp., Perry Co., PA. Phillip married a good Lutheran gal and in doing so left the Mennonite faith. Much of this line moved to what is now the western suburbs of Chicago.

A review of the colorized Y-37 chart will confirm how similar the genetic profiles of all eight of these men are.

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R1b – (M269) RIMMERs of Person Co., NC

This haplogroup is comprised of three men. All three men have the surname “RIMMER” and all are proven descendants of James and Elizabeth “Phoebe” (nee RUFFIN) RIMMER Sr. James was born in Abt. 1747 and died Before Jun 1809 in Bushy Fork Person Co. NC. Phoebe was born in 1755 and died 7 Aug 1820 in Person Co., NC. They were married in 1778 in Caswell Co., NC (later Person Co., NC). Together they had 10 children, four daughters and six sons.

The first man in this haplogroup, a participant of this DNA study, is descended from John Rimmer (1778-1845), the oldest child of James & Phoebe and the second, also a project participant, is descended from Samuel Richard Rimmer Sr. (1786-1860), the sixth-born child and the third born son. These two men are forth cousins, twice removed. The test results show two degrees of difference on 37 markers.

The third member of this haplogroup is a also a descendant of Samuel Richard RIMMER Sr. He and the second of the above men are therefore descended from the same son of James and Phoebe, making them third cousins once removed. Both of these men tested at the Y-111 level and the results were most significant - at that Y-111 level they exhibited only two degrees of difference.

This third gentleman has also extended his pedigree to include three generations before James (and Pheobe) who he presents as the son of James and Ane (nee TAYLOR) RIMMER of Maryland. He presents this James (Abt 1729- 14 Oct 1774) of Dorchester Co., MD as the son of Hugh and Mary (nee WILLIS) RIMMER of Maryland. Hugh (Abt 1696- 1745) of Dorchester Co., MD is presented as the son of Oliver and Anne (nee MATTHEWE) RYMER. Oliver, it is reported, was born 12 Mar 1680 in North Meols, Lancashire, England and died 6 Dec 1741. And, finally, Oliver is said to have been as son of Robert Hill and Margaret (nee BREKELL) RYMER. Robert is presented as born 30 Aug 1662 in North Meols, Lancsashire, England and died Abt 1723 in Southport, Lancashire, England.

A final set of comments cannot be avoided. As the above was being written the similarity of this haplogroup and another became more and more obvious. In particular, North Meols, Lancashire was a home for the above and for the two men presented in the Haplogroup 12A1B {M36) – RIMER.RIMMER of England ancestors lived in similar communities in Lancashire. Were the five men, perhaps, more closely related than we had recognized? Identical surnames from the same place – could that mean….? The simple answer is NO! A quick comparison of the DNA profiles of these men quickly reveals that there is Literally nothing in common between the two groups. How fortunate we are to have such clear and certain guidance in what to pursue and what is simply never going to be worth the effort to research further!

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R1b - Unmatched at this time at a level of certainty on the Y-Line in this project

Content will be added here soon!

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Since the below Z Haplogroups are NOT based on “RAMER” Y-DNA, no additional content will be added for now.

Z.1 - I1 - (M253) BRATCHER -- Classification based on non-RAMER Y-DNA

Z.2 - R1a - (M512) William F. STURM (b. 1863 - d. 1923) - Classification based on non-RAMER Y-DNA

Z.3 - R1b - Mathias HARMON of NC (d. 1779) -- Classification based on non-RAMER Y-DNA

Z.4 - R1b - (M343 & M269) Thomas Rice, Wales died bef 1711 -- Classification based on non-RAMER Y-DNA

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