R Z253

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Are you a member of the R Z253 project?
Wyatt Canady Wyatt Canady
Just now
I'm new to the group and still pretty much a novice at genetic genealogy. I joined FTDNA from a kit transfer from Geo 2, earlier in the year
Joseph Murray Joseph Murray
19 hours ago
Been gone fpr awhile moved from Kansas to Tucson ,Az . New email address and new bride
James Donaldson
3 hours ago
Congratulations Joe.
2 Recent New Members
June 25 @ 7:51pm
2 new members have joined this project!
Charlene McCARTHY David (twin) McCARTHY
1 Recent New Member
June 22 @ 2:09am
1 new member has joined this project!
Dylan Thornsberry
5 Recent New Members
June 20 @ 6:56am
5 new members have joined this project!
Dirk Pureveen Kathleen O'Neill W.V. Malican Stephanie Neal Justin Bryan
Robert Johnston gedmatch T238108
June 17 @ 8:21pm
Welcome
Dominic O'Ceallaigh Basher Dominic O'Ceallaigh Basher
May 12 @ 8:56am
One of the samples from Longniddry in Scotland (1500-1300 BCE) has been tested as R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e2b3a1 in the recently published study of Beaker peoples. Can someone help me 'translate' this? Am I correct that this is on a separate branch of the L21 tree to Z253 (diverging after DF21)? I saw a refernce elsewhere to this test result being L1066 but I cannot find a comparison table that confirms this. Thanks.
7 Comments
Walter Meredith
May 21 @ 6:00am
Greg, .... differ markedly as to their number of private SNPs ...... Perhaps random chance, or perhaps to do with the age of the fathers, as older fathers increase the chance of mutation.
Walter Meredith
May 21 @ 6:02am
Dominic, very interesting, and thank you to all the experts here for their comments.
Brandon Curley
June 19 @ 5:42am
"If Doug Longniddry has a lot of mutations under L1066 that would push these estimates backwards in time and make the geographic origins less certain. " Aside from echoing Greg's comment regarding the uncertainty of SNP based dating, it's important to note that, according to the paper, the ancient DNA in this study was generally only enriched and tested for 1240k specific known SNPs, SNPs previously identified in modern individuals. The entire genome was not shotgun tested except for a few individual cases. So, unless I misunderstand the paper, these tests will not generally reveal novel SNPs (except those rare cases that were incidentally captured within the target sequence), even when the raw data is later released.
Paul Saban
June 19 @ 7:45am
Yes, unfortunately that is the case. They did not do a Big Y like (NGS type) test - more like a Geno 2.0 test. Moreover, not all of those 1240k tested were on the Y chromosome either. So we are not going to be able to tell much more. Nevertheless, as I said, at least we do know that L1066 (and so Z2185 and Z253 etc.) was in South East Scotland about 1400BC, which is why an ancient find is so much better than SNP based mathematics and locations from 3000+ years distance, a pretty amazing advance on what we knew before.
Daniel Moore Daniel Moore
Admin
June 18 @ 10:49am
The FAQ has been updated to answer this question: "There are many administrators, how do I find out which one to contact?" This link has the answer: https://goo.gl/aViwLg
Justin Bryan Justin Bryan has a question!
June 16 @ 10:22pm
Was advised to join this group. My kit is 464903 I'm dc189 positive l226 Irish type iii. Any other information and help from here would be appreciated. Trying to find out where I come from and how we got our name. Thanks.
Paul Saban
June 18 @ 2:11am
You should join the L226 project too: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-l226-project/about, and look at this associated website, if you have not found it already: http://www.irishtype3dna.org/index.php, both run by one of the admins of this project. It looks like one of the most interesting haplogroups to belong to, especially for someone called Bryan. It's a south-west Irish group linked to the O'Briens. There seems to be an extraordinarily large number of people descended from one person who lived as recently as the mid 1st millennium AD. It looks like he's the only representative so far of a line that branched off from Z2534 about 2000 years earlier. It would be interesting to know what happened in between, but obviously the main focus of L226 is all the fascinating south-west Irish history that happened from the mid 1st millennium AD onwards, and the L226 diaspora. http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=175
7 Recent New Members
June 13 @ 9:43am
7 new members have joined this project!
Jimmy Wallace R. McLain Albert Ray Bruce Ritter Ed Wallis Jr. Dana Davis, Jr. Wyatt Canady
Robert Johnston gedmatch T238108
June 15 @ 7:36pm
Welcome
William McConnell William McConnell
June 7 @ 2:29pm
I've just got my Z253 SNP Pack results and I'm now Z17692. Can anyone point me in the direction of finding out more about this Haplogroup? I've checked the Clan Donald project but there aren't any Z17692s on there. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
6 Comments
Paul Saban
June 10 @ 9:27am
I was just looking at your Z17692 section in particular, to see how old it likely is. This can be judged by the number of mutations in each stack and under each name. Others familiar with this group might know better, but I'd say it arose roughly 2000 years ago, but your most recent common ancestor was about 1000 years ago, just before surnames. Obviously you'd be very lucky to get an ancient DNA find with those dates for your specific haplogroup, but with these more recent groups looking at surname clustering becomes more relevant. What you have said about locations might fit well for Z17692 and, given the 3400 year old Lothian find, it might be that going back through FGC3222, FGC3268 and ZZ6 to Z253 your line was in a fairly small geographical area for a very long time.
William McConnell
June 11 @ 3:19am
Thanks for all of this, Paul. I've just had a look at some of the other names that are showing as Y67 matches and three of the names seem to have their origins in the same part of Scotland: McMurray and McCracken from Galloway, and Dalrymple from Ayrshire. The majority of my matches still have a Haplogroup of R-M269 - hopefully some of them will do some more SNP testing at some stage. I've just upgraded to Y111 to see what that throws up. Thanks again.
Patrick Faul
June 14 @ 8:31am
Paul, where was Z253 found in Scotland in 1400BC? I've never run across that in the past. Thanks!
Paul Saban
June 14 @ 1:15pm
Longniddry, East Lothian. It’s part of the results from this fascinating new paper: http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135962. The finds under L21 from this study (and from others) have been added to the ‘ancient DNA’ list at the bottom left hand corner of this helpful chart on the about page of the L21 Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-l21/about. As far as I'm aware, this Longniddry find is the only ancient example under Z253 uncovered to date. What we don't know is whether it was all over Britain and Ireland in 1400BC or local to this area, and if so how big an area. I think we are going to see increasing numbers of ancient remains analysed, so hopefully the picture will become clearer in due course.