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R Z253

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John Templer Harper John Templer Harper
September 27, 2018 @ 8:45pm
Haplotree The world’s largest Y-DNA Haplotree with more than 16,000 branches, 118,000 variants and 160,000 confirmed SNPs. Complete with every SNP tested man, with flags of origin. Our R-Z253 has 2257 men. IRE ENG SCT USA UK Spain France Wales N IRE GER 583 135 125 116 63 24 22 20 18 16 48.83% 11.31% 10.47% 9.72% 5.28% 2.01% 1.84% 1.68% 1.51% 1.34% Canada Norway Sweden USA NL SWI Mexico Dmk Rus Fed Australia 12 9 8 6 4 4 4 3 2 2 1.01% 0.75% 0.67% 0.50% 0.34% 0.34% 0.34% 0.25% 0.17% 0.17% NZ Brazil Italy PortugalPuer Rico Haiti Poland Finland Hond Colombia 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 0.17% 0.17% 0.17% 0.17% 0.17% 0.17% 0.08% 0.08% 0.08% 0.08% S Africa Trin&Tob Unk Total 1 1 1,063 2,257 0.08% 0.08% ** 100.00% * All origins are self-reported by the testers and may not reflect accurate haplogroup origins. ** Unknown Origins are not included in the calculated distributions.
Simo Roman
October 3 @ 8:18am
One year later total 2576 of which 1172 MDKAs are from unknown country. Top ten: Ireland • 667 • 47.51% United States • 171 • 12.18% England • 160 • 11.40% Scotland • 140 • 9.97% United Kingdom • 69 • 4.91% Spain • 25 • 1.78% France • 25 • 1.78% Wales • 25 • 1.78% Northern Ireland • 20 • 1.42% Germany • 17 • 1,2 %
John Templer Harper
November 4 @ 4:33am
In February 2018 there were 267 branches below R-Z253 Today in November 2019 there are now 3710 Variants/SNPs defining 530 branches There are 2607 R-Z253 men, including 885 with Big Y results.
John Templer Harper
November 4 @ 5:48am
In February 2018 there were 267 branches below R-Z253 Today in November 2019 there are 2607 R-Z253 men with 885 Big Y results. There are now 3710 Variants/SNPs defining 530 branches Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 Branches 1 8 12 21 32 43 41 SNPs 2 132 114 310 267 551 378 Average 2.00 16.50 9.50 14.76 8.34 12.81 9.22 Level 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Branches 56 48 47 39 44 41 41 SNPs 501 445 181 149 187 175 143 Average 8.95 9.27 3.85 3.82 4.25 4.27 3.49 Level 14 15 16 17 18 19 Total Branches 24 17 7 2 3 3 530 SNPs 78 61 16 3 7 10 3710 Average 3.25 3.59 2.29 1.50 2.33 3.33 7.00 First, BY (from Big Y-500), and now FT (from Big Y-700), coming to the fore. Prefix BY FT FGC DC A Y Z S CTS PH (20other) SNPs Lead 256 15 61 102 30 15 16 9 5 4 17 530 Equiv 1495 592 464 187 145 157 55 22 12 12 39 3180 Total 1751 607 525 289 175 172 71 31 17 16 56 3710 Lead 48% 3% 12% 19% 6% 3% 3% 2% 1% 1% 3% 100% Equiv 47% 19% 15% 6% 5% 5% 2% 1% 0% 0% 1% 100% Total 47% 16% 14% 8% 5% 5% 2% 1% 0% 0% 2% 100%
John Templer Harper John Templer Harper
June 17 @ 11:17pm
DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK Never order ANYTHING, for any kit unable to supply a new sample, without first asking for advice. In such situations, any remaining sample is very valuable, and caution is required. Most men will need advice before ordering any sort of SNP test, except Big Y-700. Single SNP tests are the most expensive way to test, both in dollar terms, and also in the amount of sample being used. SNP Packs (shown in this link) are a half way house, and will help you sort through your STR matches, but cannot discover your own more recent family lineage SNPs (which only Big Y can do). 2012 Big Y > 2017 free upgrade Big Y-500 > 2019 new test Big Y-700 For all who did Big Y-500 already at FTDNA with only 37 or 67 STR-Markers. There is an offer to upgrade to 111 Markers for just $29. Just click the blue upgrade button at top right! For those with Big Y-500 already, it is better to test a known 3rd or 4th cousin with Big Y-700, than to upgrade your own Big Y. Of course it costs more, but this can be as little as $130 extra, if they are already at Y111, in a sale. The big advantage, is that you will likely get an extra branch in your haplotree. Big Y-700 is the premier SNP discovery test, and can be used irrespective of Haplogroup, so you cannot go wrong by ordering this test. The exception is when a close relative already has Big Y, because your results would be almost identical. You only need do Big Y-700 once. Prior to 2018, we had to buy one of the STR tests (Y12, Y25, but mostly Y37, Y67 or Y111) before we qualified to buy Big Y. Now Big Y-700 includes the complete Y111, plus a heap more new STRs to get to Y700 (most actually get >700), plus a true SNP discovery test, that will pick up the vast majority of known and new SNPs that define our more recent family Y lineage. New members can jump straight into Big Y-700, and anyone without Big Y can upgrade. Best to hold off now until the Holiday Sale, usually mid Nov to end Dec. The most helpful test after Big Y-700, is for a 4th cousin to do a Big Y-700, as they will likely match all your singleton unnamed variants but one or two (on average). The next most helpful test is for a 8th cousin (or closish Y67 match) to do a Big Y-700, as they will likely match all but three or four of your singleton unnamed private variants. Taken together, this will likely give you two extra branches, each of which can be aged. Next step is to now upload the VCF to the Data Warehouse (and your matches too), for free analysis, placement on The Big Tree, and ageing of relationships. PLEASE MAKE ANY COMMENTS IN A NEW FEED STARTING AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE. That way you will be advised through notifications of any comments, and this post can then remain at the top uncluttered by other posts.
Lance Adams Lance Adams has a question!
December 8 @ 8:10am
How accurate are the TIP reports.
James Donaldson
December 8 @ 1:20pm
Lance, not very accurate in my estimation. Best regards, Jim Donaldson
Patrick Faul Patrick Faul
November 21 @ 3:55pm
Can somebody with more knowledge than I check the haplotree for Z253? I'm BY4087 and am negative for Z2185. FTDNA's haplotree seems to disagree, and puts BY4087/BY4221 under ZZ5_1.
Patrick Faul
November 21 @ 3:58pm
I should have actually specified the Z253 haplotree linked above.
John Templer Harper
November 21 @ 7:15pm
Patrick, something is wrong with your haplotree, as you are clearly Z2185-ve from a separate SNP test (no result in your Big Y-500). This is confirmed by your -ve results for CTS2646 and Z2184, which are equivalents to R-Z2185 in the haplotree. I have posted a query on this with FTDNA, suggesting that your placement should be as Alex Williamson has it on The Big Tree. R-Z253 > Z2534 > ZZ5 > BY4087, BY4221 > BY4090 Rather than R-Z253>Z2534>ZZ5_1>Z2185>BY4087, BY4090, BY4221, FGC8284 I note you have no-call for BY4087 and FGC8284, with BY4090 listing Currently no results. Subgroup Confirmed Z253+ and/or Z2534+ and/or ZZ5+ and confirmed or expected BY4087+
Michael Faul
December 2 @ 8:54am
Thanks John!
John Templer Harper
December 5 @ 7:09pm
Patrick, this has now been fixed, and BY4087 is now shown as a brother branch. Branch R-ZZ5_1 R-Z2185 R-BY4087 R-Z2195 R-A16 R-BY25447 R-ZZ5_1* BigYs 368 275 9 21 50 11 2 You are the only R-BY4087* man; with 18 singleton private variants waiting for a match. Best chances are FF matches with Faul in their ancestral names. Putting aside your close relatives, there is Leach 2nd/3rd cousin, Keig 4th/remote, Brandon 5th/remote, and Mahpney 5th/remote. Hopefully at least one of them will have a Faul surnamed relative who might be able to do a Y test, and Big Y. Timmins 60/67 could also prove interesting, by matching at least a few singletons. Subgroup Confirmed Z253+ and/or Z2534+ and/or ZZ5+ and confirmed or expected BY4087+
Lee Canipe Lee Canipe
November 26 @ 11:06am
Well, this is really crazy... I updated to the V5 chip on 23andMe. On this refined chip, my y-haplogroup is identified as R-Y4010. This matches my Canipe cousins (although I also show a Jones match with R-Y4010). FTDNA lists my terminal SNP as R-S856. Two totally different branches! One of these companies is off!
Ray Murta
November 26 @ 5:01pm
Lee, unless there has been a mix up with your FTDNA sample there is no doubt that you belong to the Haplogroup reported by FTDNA. You have tested positive for at least 12 SNPs belonging to the S844/S847 Cluster and you tested negative for L226 which is upstream of Y4010. Furthermore your STR results place you firmly in the S844/S847 Cluster. You can’t belong to both Haplogroups because they are exclusive so unless your Y4010 in recurring in your DNA by coincidence then there is something wrong with your 23andMe result.
Lee Canipe
November 26 @ 6:42pm
I suspect something is wrong with 23andMe's testing
Erick Rooker (Wilson)
December 1 @ 6:41pm
23andMe also have me in R-Y4010. However, I tested negative for the branch above that. I pointed it to them and they have since refused to discuss the matter any further.
Lee Canipe
December 3 @ 1:23pm
How rude of them not to even discuss the issue! I'm frustrated with 23andMe. For sure, I believe FTDNA is on the mark with their y-dna testing. What drives me so crazy is now I'm wondering if my Canipe cousins, who tested with Y4010 at 23andMe, are really S856? Of course, this would not explain matching some Canipes and not others, matching Jones & Clarks, the bastardy bond from 1877 (saying my great-grandfather should really be a Jones), etc. I try to get them to test here with FTDNA and none of them seem interested.
Brendan Higgins Brendan Higgins
December 2 @ 8:38pm
Hello All, I just joined FTDNA and uploaded my DNA info. My Haplogroup is R-S7898 via L21>Z253. My name is Brendan Higgins, so I joined the Higgins Project hoping to find some further info, but the project seems to have stalled and can’t contact any admins. I’m enjoying the research but have seemed to hit a roadblock as the 23 & Me only takes me to R-Z18132. I’d like to find some more info <
John Templer Harper
December 3 @ 3:12am
Brendan, there are 63 SNP tested R-S7898 men here at FTDNA, with 40 of them having Big Y results, and all but 5 of those on branches downstream of that branch. R-M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269> L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>ZZ10_1>Z253 >BY4086>FGC17436>A494>FGC73657>FGC17446>S7897>A503>S7898 These are the 17 branches below, where you could land with Big Y-700. Alternatively, you could split one of those branches, which include many equivalent SNPs that cannot at present be ordered separately. Or, you could draw a new branch by matching one of those 5 R-S7898 men. R-S7898 R-S15280 R-FGC17449 R-BY19965 R-BY38569 R-Y61300 R-BY56023 R-Z18132 R-BY157 R-BY357 R-A4662 R-A4668 R-BY4065 R-BY13083 R-BY4068 R-BY57931 R-FT97453 R-BY19551 and a minimum of 5 new branches one day, possibly/probably more Either way, you will get your own line of singleton private variants that define your paternal line in more recent times. The 23andMe test is a chip based test, that includes a sprinkling of SNPs from heaps of haplogroups. Big Y is a SNP discovery test; so chalk and cheese really. Having done the 23andMe test narrows it down to the last half only.
Brendan Higgins Brendan Higgins has a question!
December 2 @ 8:32pm
Hello All,
John Templer Harper
December 3 @ 2:44am
Brendan, you have fallen for the trap for beginners. If you click to the right of each of these boxes, it will allow you to delete each of them. Next time, you can simply edit instead. As you have found, pressing enter completes your post. To start a new line, hold shift and then press enter.
Brendan Higgins Brendan Higgins has a question!
December 2 @ 8:40pm
(Sorry I keep hitting return and my question disappears.) I’d like to do some personal digging before I look into doing some of the more expensive tests on FTDNA. Does anyone have any suggestions? I appreciate your time. Thanks
Brendan Higgins Brendan Higgins
December 2 @ 8:32pm
Hello All,
John Templer Harper John Templer Harper
July 30 @ 4:47am
PLEASE In the month of July (so far) we have 50 Big Y-700 results, so a lot happening right now. In time I intend to do some analysis of the Y700 STRs compared to the Y500. There is a problem, in that several (too many) have opted to hide their Y12 results. In the olde days (a year or three back) many chose to do this so that they would not be inundated with emails advising new matches. Very understandable, especially for those men (of which we have quite a few) with the WAMH badge, when you are getting thousands of Y12 (and even Y25) matches. This is no longer necessary, and in fact should now be avoided. FTDNA recognised this issue some time back, when they decoupled the email advices from the ability to see the matches. So, please join me in having your cake and eating it too; by blocking any email advices you do not need, but still sharing matches at every level. Please send me email notifications for the following new matches as you please Match Preference Summary Y-DNA please share EVERY level
John Templer Harper
September 29 @ 6:41pm
We now have 186 Big Y-700 results, and 41 pending.
John Templer Harper
November 2 @ 4:19pm
We now have 218 Big Y-700 results, 10 pending, and 1 new order.
John Templer Harper
December 1 @ 9:42pm
We now have 229 Big Y-700 results, 41 pending orders. I wonder when we will see another new son of R-Z253, to add to the 8 now. R-Z2534, R-BY4086, R-S844, R-FGC3268, R-BY19652, R-BY39773, R-PH3052, R-FT97863 Of the 902 men with Big Y results, there are 4 R-Z253* men waiting for matches.
John McCracken John McCracken
November 30 @ 4:48am
Thank you to the admin(s) who regrouped the kits confirmed Z253+ and FGC3268+.
Joseph Moore #67708 Joseph Moore #67708
November 23 @ 12:09pm
I have the current terminal SNP R-BY20018, whose father or grandfather (figuratively speaking) was BY20023. BY38570 also descends from BY20023. It would help immeasurably if some or all of the confirmed BY38570s would send their Big-Y results to the Data Warehouse for inclusion on the Big Tree for P-312. BY38570s show on my matches page for both Big Y-500 and Big Y-700, all of us branching from BY20023.
John Templer Harper
November 28 @ 5:01pm
Joseph, I can see you and the other 2 Moore men on The Big Tree. As well as your Moore matches, you have Bigelow and Forward as Big Y matches, either of whom would achieve your wish. I suggest emailing them and asking them to upload their VCF. You or they would then need to email Alex Williamson, as he no longer takes all the uploads for inclusion on The Big Tree. R-BY20037 R-BY20023 R-BY20018 R-BY38570 R-BY56803 It is a little odd that #91257 does not appear as a Big Y match. He has done Big Y-700 and has only 3 singletons, none matching yours. It might help if you ask him to upload to the DW, and ask Alex to look into. Your only R-BY20018 match #441725 has done Big Y-500 and has 3 singletons, none matching yours.
Joseph Moore #67708
November 29 @ 3:31am
Thank you, John. 91257 is a known paper-trail distant cousin; his results must be just now coming in as he ordered Y-700 just recently, upgrading from Y-500. 441725 is also tested to Y-700, another paper-trail distant cousin. The Bagleys/Bigelows and those of us who are SNP 20018 share DNA descent from the Baguleys of Cheshire, England. Bagleys, etc., do not respond to contacts thus far, but I'll try them again as they are key to the Moore line and have a somewhat documented ancestry to Richard Baggiley in 1243. So our Moores are no doubt an NPE from the Bagleys.