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R1b-CTS4466 Plus

  • 982 members

About us

CTS4466 is the SNP that defines the Irish Type II subclade, which was identified by the respected physicist and nonpareil citizen scientist Dr. Ken Nordtvedt in 2006.  It was recognized by its distinctive haplotype prior to the discovery of any SNPs associated with it. In 2011, multiple attempts to find a defining SNP through the Walk Through The Y test offered by Family Tree failed, but at the end of 2012, the more comprehensive Geno 2.0 test through National Geographic finally gave us success with two SNPs – CTS4466 and CTS5714.  Then the 1000 Genome project added two more – CTS3974 and CTS8358. Since then, an increasing number of other SNPs have been discovered through the other extensive SNP tests mentioned at the bottom of the page, particularly the BIG Y test.

 

Objectives
 
The R1b-CTS4466 Plus project will research the parameters of this major subclade which features strongly in the south of Ireland, but it is found as well in other areas of the Isles, including some in the west of Ireland, Wales, western England, an apparent branch in Northern Ireland and Scotland and a few continentals.  We hope to discover the ancient history of this subclade - where it may have originated, how old it might be, which groups within it share more recent ancestry and how different branches may have developed and migrated from the time of the common ancestor.


 
Membership Criteria

To meet the objectives of the project, we seek to limit membership to those who have tested positive for at least one of the SNPs defining Irish Type II or have a haplotype consistent with that identified through research in the Family Tree DNA database.
 
Interested parties are invited to join, even if not SNP tested, with the understanding that the Project Administrators will review the participant’s haplotype and, at their discretion, determine if there is a likelihood of it proving positive for the defining SNPs. If accepted, we expect that the participants will be willing to test for further SNPs as suggested, based on the discoveries as we progress.

Those who are deemed not to meet these criteria will be asked to leave the project or accept that the Project Administrators will remove them from it.



The Irish Type II Modal

We cannot know what the actual haplotype was of the first man to carry the distinguishing SNP/s that define the Irish Type II haplotype, but as Nigel puts it, logical reasoning gives a pretty good guess at what the ancestral haplotype was just 2000 years ago; just one or two loci may be in doubt.  The Irish Type II modal is a compilation of the most common values of a particular haplotype. 

The modal for the SNP L21 super subclade is the base used to arrive at the Irish Type II modal. There are fourteen markers where the value for the Irish Type II differs from the L21 modal. Seven are one step up from the L21 and seven are one step down. 

The SNPs associated with Irish Type II

Our analysis of the various extensive SNP tests has enabled us to develop a working hierarchy of the haplotree for the Irish Type II haplotype.  The following table provides a simple version of this tree.  Some of the SNPs are known by more than one designation, and we've tried to include the alternatives in such instances.  Some SNPs may not have been 'named' yet, and those are listed by their numerical position on the Y chromosome.  Some SNPs are at this time considered phylogenetically equivalent and they are marked as such.  It has become more difficult to include all equivalents as the number of branches keep increasing. The indentations indicate which SNPs are downstream in the hierarchy.  Those listed in red font are available at Family Tree for individual testing.  We hope to see more available and will note as such as they are added.  If we have missed any, you can enter the SNP into the Advanced Tests section of Upgrades to check.  We can sometimes get a bit behind in updating the tree here with newly identified branches, but the Results spreadsheet is always accurate.  If you see any errors or omissions, please bring them to our attention.
 

CTS4466/S1136 & equivalents CTS11267/S7938, CTS3974/S7936, CTS5714/S1137, CTS8358/Z3022,
 Z16247/FGC11133, S1113, S1120, S1122, S1128, S7364, Z16248, Z3025/A81Z3028A114, A149/FGC11137

—A7751

——FGC43844

———FGC43847

———FGC43838

——A17979

S1115

——BY23591

———BY23525/A12402

————BY12400

—————BY137126

——————BY90083

———BY23626

——A541

———S1121

————L270.2 & equivalents M4291Z16518, Z16519, Z16520, Z16521, Z16522, Z20762

—————BY23396

—————BY29109

—————FT43021

——————A1133

——————BY3863

———————Y29014

————————Y29013

——————PR2745

———————BY16025 & equivalents BY16026, BY16027

———————BY128975

——————BY29108

———————8871942

——————BY39363

———————BY39361

————————BY39364

—————FGC42465

————Z16252 & equivalent Z16251

—————Z18170

——————FGC29280 

———————S1126

————————A542 & equivalents A543, S1129, A1137, A1138

—————————S1112

————————A726

—————————BY34724

——————————BY84873

—————————BY66777

—————————BY44567

———————FGC29291

————————FGC29286 & equivalents FGC29289, FGC29290

—————————BY15516

———————BY3536 & equivalents BY3518BY3519, BY3520, BY3521, BY3522, BY3523, BY3524

———————BY42407

——————A150

———————BY2877

————————FGC11145 & equivalents FGC11150, FGC11152, FGC11159, Z20764

————————BY2879

—————————A745 & equivalents A746, A747, A748, Z20763

—————A159

——————BY2881

———————BY149/Z17981

————————Z17982 & equivalent Z17983

—————————A664 & equivalents BY3525BY3526

——————————A1511 & equivalent A1512

——————————A7752 & equivalents BY3527BY3528 

———————————BY34893

————————————BY69984

——————————A12015

———————————BY23543

————————————BY23443

——————————BY15517

———————————BY30547

—————————BY21825

——————————BY34719

———————————BY72127

————————A923

—————————BY21613

—————————BY21614

——————————BY30544

——————————BY30546

———————————BY34891

————————————BY119288

—————————BY51516

—————————Y108997

————————A6507

—————————A6508 & equivalent A6509

—————————S27124

————————Z3006

—————————BY23569

———————A9185

————————A18874

——————F24356

———————A20863

—————A1134 & equivalent A9005

——————BY2880

———————A804

————————A802

—————————A803/BY3531

—————————A914

——————————BY121634

————————FGC29067 & equivalents FGC29073, FGC29074, FGC29075

—————————FGC29071

———————FGC17180

————————A2224

—————————A2221 & equivalents A2222, A2223, A2225, A2226

——————————A6464

——————A809 & equivalents A807, Z20766, A13625

———————A806 & equivalents A808, A810, 13834289..303, 16840403

————————BY24758

———————BY72807

————————A2331 & equivalents A2331-A1337, 2348..., 2108..., 1914...

———————20067301

——————A6516

———————A6511 & equivalents A6512, A6513, A6514, A6515, A6517, BY4059, A6305, A6388

———A1135 & equivalents A1136, Z21065

————A195

—————A761

——————A88

———————Z16259 & equivalents Z16258, Z17985

————————BY2876

—————————ZS4590 & equivalents ZS4589, ZS4591, ZS4592, ZS4593, ZS4594

—————————A1333 & equivalents A1334, A1335

——————————A12016

——————————Y47157

————————A2220

—————————A2219

——————————A2295 & equivalent A2294

——————————A12017

—————————A7755

——————————BY70308

————————A10727

——————————BY42849

———————BY2878

————————A89 & equivalents A90, Z16256

—————————A155

——————————A156 & equivalents A157, A158, Z16257/A159

——————————BY34898

———————————BY156940

—————————BY15518

———————A7660 & equivalent A12223

———————BY23574

————————BY208692

——————Z16254

———————A154 & equivalents Z16255, Z17554

————————A153

—————————A474

—————————BY11841

———————A1338

————————A1336 & equivalents A1337, A1339, A1340, A1341, A1342, FGC11858

——————A12590

———————A12588

————————A12589

—————A10641

————BY19775

—————A956

——————A2288

———————BY19776

———————A5312 & equivalents A5313, BY3532

————————A8748

—————————A7753 & equivalent A2429

————————BY34895

——————A7754

————A2427 & equivalents A2428, A2429, A2430, A2431, A2432

—————BY21618

————A9426

————A11844

—————A12525

—————BY32462

——————BY32460

———A151 & equivalent A152

————FGC29768

—————BY139/Z17986 & equivalent A1139

——————BY141/A661

———————BY140/Z17987 & equivalents BY142/A662, Z17988

———————BY42721

——————A9865

———————A12087

————————A12148

———————BY43350

——————BY65689

———————BY212618

—————A743

——————FGC29773

———————FGC29771

————————BY15520

—————————BY15519

————————F3189

————————BY51215

————————FGC29774

————A714 & equivalents A716, A717

—————A715

——————FGC23796 & equivalents FGC23797, FGC23800, FGC23801, FGC23803, FGC23804

——————FGC30535

———————FGC30538

———————BY77371

—————BY111005

—————BY186440

————B42

—————A7659

——————A7654, & equivalents A7655, A7656, A7657

———————FT47674

————BY21620

—————BY21619

——————BY34899

——A212 & equivalent A218

———A206 & equivalents A210, A214, A216, A217, A292, A349, A351

————A208

———A6518

———A7699

————A6525

—————A7756 & equivalents BY3533, BY3534, A9512

——————A9513

—————BY79430

————A6526 & equivalents A6527, A6528, A6531, A6532, A6533

—————A5629

—————BY186342

————BY3535

—————BY3862

—————BY222454

————BY42760

—————BY53755

———A7648

——A663 & equivalentZ17989Z17990

———A2289 & equivalents A2290,A2292

————A2291

————BY81788

————FT33173

———BY24324

————A5598 & equivalents A5595, A5596, A5597, A5598

————BY93490

—————Y34442


There is a detailed chart that can be seen in the Files section of our Forum (see below), where it can be downloaded at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-CTS4466-Plus/files.  James Kane's Experimental Tree is available at https://haplogroup-r.org/tree/R.html.  It includes the kit numbers of those who have tested the BIG Y and given him permission to include them in the chart.  It may not be exactly the same as the tree shown above.  More SNPs are found with each BIG Y and NGS (Next Generation Sequencing) test, expanding the tree regularly.  If you see any discrepancies, please let us know and help keep the tree current.

The CTS4466 tree has expanded tremendously since our first meager chart in 2014, and as we receive more BIG Y and other NGS results, we continue to identify more branches. There are a number of SNPs currently equivalent to CTS4466. While CTS4466 is being used as the 'flagship' SNP, since it was identified first, any one of them may be the first or last of this series of SNPs occurring perhaps during the Bronze Age and likely into the Iron Age, defining the Irish Type II subclade before branches which have survived to this day began to appear.

SNP Testing Options

FTDNA offers individual tests for a number of SNPs.  The price per SNP is $39.  

FTDNA has a CTS4466 SNP Pack that includes SNPs representing most currently known subclades downstream of CTS4466.  The price is $119.  Potential users should note that this Pack is unreliable in reporting certain areas of our tree, most notably that in the sequence A1135 -> A195 ->A761 and (under S1121) at BY149 (aka Z17981).  If you are predicted to fall within that branching area (if your record in the spreadsheet would be included in one of the '?' categories A2. to A2a1.) you might check with one of our administrators to determine the best choice of test.  By now, the number of new branches on the CTS4466 tree has outpaced the capacity of the Pack to include, so if you are considering it, you might check with an admin to see if you are predicted to be in a branch that is not included in the test.  Family Tree is exploring new ways to produce the data and provide timely updates when more branches are identified (which is happening with regularity from the Big Y tests).

The most extensive test is the Big Y-700, which will include an upgrade to 111 markers if the participant is not already at that level.  The cost varies depending on how many markers are already tested.  The additional STRs that are captured by the Big Y test don't display on the Results spreadsheet, but they are reported on the Big Y STR Results link.  There are usually some no-calls through the Big Y processing, but it is a tremendous addition.  The sheer number makes it difficult to adequately interpret the results, and we are only in a very early stage in learning how to cope with them.  Family tree have more details about the test at their link:  https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/big-y/

The BIG Y test provides a dedicated Big Y Results page with details of Matches, Named Variants, Private Variants and a Block Tree, displaying neighbouring branches and individuals in those branches listed on the Matching link.  It has a link to Export (CVS) that can be downloaded that contains all that data displayed.  In addition, the participants can Download Raw Data that has more information, and if they pay an additional fee, they can request a BAM file which has all the raw data for further analysis.  Unless the participant is comfortable with handling large files (they're really huge) we don't recommend they try to analyse them themselves.  We suggest that all BIG Y testers load the VCF folder as well as the link to the BAM file, if they order it, to the Y-DNA Warehouse at https://ydna-warehouse.org/submit.php.



R1b-CTS4466 Plus Haplogroup Forum

We have a separate forum at Yahoo Groups - http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-CTS4466-Plus/info - for those whose paternal ancestry places them in the CTS4466/Irish Type II haplogroup/subclade. There we can network with one another, pool our efforts, discuss research and share results. Members of the project are not required to join, but you are encouraged to participate if this sparks your interest.  Likewise, you need not be in the project to join the forum.  If you are confused by any of the science, terminology, FTDNA's website, or anything else relating to the project or genetic genealogy in general, please feel free to post your comments, questions, and concerns in the R1b-CTS4466 Plus group.  

We may need to go to a different platform since Yahoo is changing the format of their groups.  We do have a new forum at https://groups.io/g/R1b-CTS4466-Plus, but it isn't active yet.


R1b-CTS4466 Plus FAQs


We've prepared a brief document with some of the questions we receive from participants.  It is available in the files section of the Forum.


R1b-CTS4466 Plus Project Privacy Statement



As Administrator and Co-administrators of the R1b-CTS4466 Plus Project, in addition to abiding by the Privacy Policy that Family Tree posts, we wish to assure you that we give you, as a member of this Project, our priority in protecting your privacy and the confidentiality of your personal data.

What personal data about you do we hold or have access to?

The only personal data about you that we hold or have access to is data which has been made available to us by Family Tree DNA with your consent, to the access level you have chosen, and additional data which you may have given us directly by e-mail.

What use do we make of this personal data?

The only use we make of this data is that relevant to meeting the goals of our Project.  These goals require Project Administrators to be able to review the participant’s haplotype and, at their discretion, their personal data to determine and advise the project member on potential additional testing for the participant’s and the project’s benefit.

We would not publish or share your full name, e-mail address or other contact details with any other project member or other person or organization without your specific written approval, unless we were legally obliged to do so.

We will not publish or share your DNA test results except in anonymized form, limited to kit number and surname or ancestral surname.  The Results spreadsheet on our website also contains your Paternal Ancestor Name and Country of origin.

How long do we hold this personal data?

We hold this data for as long as you remain a member of our Project.  If you wish to withdraw from our Project you may do so by clicking the ‘Leave’ button on the Project Preferences link of your Account Information page.  Any posts on our R1b-CTS4466-Plus Forum can be deleted, but we cannot retrieve information that may have been previously posted in a public domain.  We would do our utmost to identify and delete any emails you have shared with us if you request us to do so.

In our administration of this Project, along with Family Tree’s commitment to you, we will comply with the requirements concerning the privacy of project members that are contained in the European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation which enters into force on 25 May 2018, regardless if you reside in the EU or elsewhere.

We endeavour to respond promptly to any queries, errors or complaints you may bring to our attention about our handling of your personal data associated with this Project.

We may update this Statement as circumstances arise.


Elizabeth O'Donoghue/Ross, elizabethod@eircom.net , Group Administrator
James Kane, jkane@tds.net , Group Co-Administrator
Jan Jones, janjones@ou.edu , Group Co-Administrator
Dr. John Brazil, johnkbrazil@gmail.com , Group Co-Administrator
Joseph Carroll, jcarroll2@mchsi.com , Group Co-Administrator
Nigel McCarthy, mccarthygen@tiscali.co.uk , Group Co-Administrator
Sharon Kelly, SharonKellyAncestry@gmail.com , Group Co-Administrator
Timothy Carmain, clanncruimin@gmail.com , Group Co-Administrator
Ronald McRaney, 
ron.mcraney@gmail.com , Group Co-Administrator


Date:  2nd June 2018

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Last updated 13th November 2019