R SRY2627/Z198/L176

Fabrice, Interesting article. You have probably seen Tiger Mike Walsh's "R1b (M343) Descendant Tree" on the "About" page of the R1b All Subclades Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/about Above every major haplogroup branch, he lists the carbon-dated year and location of the oldest-discovered-remains of a male who tested positive for that haplogroup. For DF27, he lists "2300 BC in Central Germany," which refers to the man found in Quedlinburg, Germany. It is currently believed that the DF27 men migrated from central Germany to southwestern France, then crossed the Pyrenees Mountains and settled in northeastern Spain. Then, from there, they traveled (mostly by boat/ship) throughout (mostly western) Europe and, eventually, the New World. I suppose it is possible that they stayed in central Germany until 1305 BC, when M167/SRY2627 is believed to have occurred, and then migrated to southwestern France and northeastern Spain. I see that BY3265 is below SRY2627. Here is BY3266, one block above BY3265 on Alex Williamson's "The Big Tree," just to give you a bigger picture: https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1951&star=false So, the big-picture countries are France, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, and England (Shaddix is usually an English surname). Then, even on Alex's tree, the BY3265 countries are only France and Spain. BY3265 looks to be from about 1000 BC, and trying to determine whether it first occurred in France or Spain is definitely a job for Gareth and/or Stephen. Good luck!

In 2008 I had my dna tested with igenea,They gave my primitive tribe as:Celt and country of origin:France.My haplogroup for now is R-Z202.

Dave, We have corresponded here on this project before. That is great to hear about your 2008 Y-DNA test results with iGENEA, which classified you as being descended from a Celtic tribe from France! These are all of the men (myself included) on Alex Williamson's "The Big Tree," who are descended from the Z264 block (which includes Z202): https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1081&star=false Have you taken the Big Y-700 test at FTDNA? I think iGENEA is a great and wonderful company, but, since 2008, there is so much more information available regarding Y-DNA, especially here at FTDNA. The Big Y-700 test will reveal to you the exact one of these branches in which you belong.

Douglas, yes I know the By3266 Tee on Ytree. I am a relatively "close" cousin of Chad Stoll, when we compare our Y-DNA (our common ancestor in direct paternal line would ave lived around 1240). BY3265 seems to be french indeed

Scott, Probably Monday through Friday, sometime between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., Central Time (the timezone of FTDNA's Headquarters in Houston, Texas, USA). So, if you logged-in yesterday and you were still at one Y-DNA SNP, and then you logged-in today and you have a different current terminal Y-DNA SNP, then they probably just discovered that you are positive for that Y-DNA SNP today. FTDNA's Head Y-DNA SNP Caller and Namer is Michael Sager. On behalf of all of us men here on this project, thank you for taking the Big Y-700 test! Your test results will not only move you closer to the present, but they will help all of us learn how closely we are related to you, and help some of us move closer to the present, as well. They will also help you move even closer to the present as more men test and match you. Here are all of the men on your R-BY3222 branch of Alex Williamson's "The Big Tree": https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=853&star=false Here are all of the men on our R-Z195 branch of Alex's Y-DNA SNP Tree: https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=30 Dr. Iain McDonald has been working on dating the Y-DNA SNPs of all of us R1b-P312 men. Here is a weblink to his work-in-progress R1b-P312 Table: http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/p312/table.html It begins with P312, and our major branch, DF27, begins about 2 3/4 pages below that. On Iain's Table, he lists DF27 as occurring about 3028 BC with a range of (3741 BC — 2423 BC). From there, scroll-down to our Z198 branch, and browse further. When you reach the L165 branch, you have gone too far. M7953 is equvalent to ZS312. M167 is equvalent to SRY2627. I am among the CTS4299 men, so, according to Alex's Tree, our most recent common father is Mister/Señor/Monsieur/Herr/Herre Z206. Now, Iain's Table doesn't list Z206 or any of its equivalents. Rather, it lists M167/SRY2627, in 1305 BC, and Z208 (a son of Z206), in 995 BC. We could just pick a year in between the two and say that Z206 occurred about 1150 BC, however, Alex's Tree lists Z206 as a 2nd great-grandson of (4 steps below) M167/SRY2627, so, maybe it's closer to 1100-1025 BC. From Z206, you descend from his son, BY3222, and I descend from his son, Z208. So, I guess if you're looking for a timeframe for the occurrance of BY3222, it's about 1000 BC. My Y-DNA ancestor who immigrated to the USA was a Swedish Lutheran sailor who changed his surname from Alexandersson to Smith. I have a Miller family on my mother's side who are Scottish Presbyterians and a Sept of Scottish Clan MacFarlane. What about you, Scott? What is the origin of your Y-DNA Miller family?

Thank you for the response. I assume in the future I will have further changes as they are 30 terminal SNPs downstream from R-BY3222 I have not been tested for. I assume my father's line is German as great grandparents were Catholic Germans from Russia, now day Ukraine. I know the autosomal dna results are definitely estimates but I have tested with all of the major sites and my so called German dna ranges from 65% to 100% depending on the site. My father's line is the weakest part of my family tree. Looking at the R-BY3222 table you sent, I tested negative for CTS4549 so it leaves three people in the far right two columns as possible matches.

Scott, your original Big Y results were inconclusive for BY3222, it looks like the FTDNA lab retested just this one SNP in order to confirm your place on the tree. I think this is a change of policy - previously Big Y testers were told that no-call SNPs would not be retested for free. You can assume that you are negative for all SNPs downstream of BY3222 which are already on the tree, but you have 45 private variants which occurred in the last 3,000 years or so. When someone sharing BY3222 and a subset of those variants gets a Big Y test, the ones which are no longer private will be added to the tree and your terminal SNP will change.

Appreciate your response, very helpful.

What do the numbers in the parenthesis represent?

Genetic distance measures how close you are to a given sample. 10 means this is your ancient ancestry 20 means this is part of your ancestral link 30 means possibly related to your ancestry /// This is their explanation of the numbers

I used my 23&me kit for this because they include a basic Y and MTDNA in their autosomal test They show my father and myself as R-M167 my mtdna is T2b. Of coarse I have a Y test and deep clade here and a ff our ftdna Y group is sry2627. My point with this is I'm not showing any ancient matches in Iberia at all. They most certainly have ancient samples from this area