R SRY2627/Z198/L176

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Gareth Henson Gareth Henson
Admin
October 22, 2017 @ 2:46pm
The home page banner is from the Wikipedia page for the Val d'Aran where 48% of a sample of local men were found to belong to R-SRY2627. Photo credit: Wikipedia user Nickj
15 Comments
Philip Nicholson
May 8, 2018 @ 4:27pm
Isn't the Val d'Aran selection just a simple data point? It seems some in the group have concluded this is ground zero. If I took a sample in the centre of hilly Portugal, could I find the same? Or Andorra etc etc etc?
Casey Barrier
June 4, 2018 @ 8:13pm
The Val d"Aran is of interest because of the high percentage of men from that area that exhibit the R-SRY2627 haplogroup. My family can be traced to Canton Bern, Switzerland, but I make no other conclusions beyond that.
Mario Eworo
August 3, 2018 @ 2:53pm
My dad is from Equatorial Guinea and his dad is from Cataluyna and I just tested for R-M167 on 23andme. I always assumed it is a Spanish haplogroup.
Casey Barrier
February 1, 2019 @ 6:57pm
Most probably your ancient paternal ancestor was from the Catalonia/Val d'Aran region in the northeastern corner of Spain and adjacent area of France, etc. It is not uncommon for Latin Americans to have such ancestors. Welcome!
Fabrice Delangre Fabrice Delangre
March 9 @ 8:37pm
according to this article published in march 2019 by the spanish scientist Carlos QUILES, SRY2627 is an haplogroup "linked to Celts expanding with the Urnfield culture" : https://indo-european.eu/2019/03/haplogroup-r1b-m167-sry2627-linked-to-celts-expanding-with-the-urnfield-culture/ Quoting some recent studies of ancien t DNA in Spain, he thinks that SRY 2627 didn't appear in Spain but in Central Europe. My terminal SNP is BY3265. We are only 4 currently known with that terminal SNP (3 in France, one in Catalonia, Spain). We believe this SNP appeared in France, but we need more information to confirm it.
Douglas Smith
March 11 @ 3:43am
Fabrice, Interesting article. You have probably seen Tiger Mike Walsh's "R1b (M343) Descendant Tree" on the "About" page of the R1b All Subclades Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/about Above every major haplogroup branch, he lists the carbon-dated year and location of the oldest-discovered-remains of a male who tested positive for that haplogroup. For DF27, he lists "2300 BC in Central Germany," which refers to the man found in Quedlinburg, Germany. It is currently believed that the DF27 men migrated from central Germany to southwestern France, then crossed the Pyrenees Mountains and settled in northeastern Spain. Then, from there, they traveled (mostly by boat/ship) throughout (mostly western) Europe and, eventually, the New World. I suppose it is possible that they stayed in central Germany until 1305 BC, when M167/SRY2627 is believed to have occurred, and then migrated to southwestern France and northeastern Spain. I see that BY3265 is below SRY2627. Here is BY3266, one block above BY3265 on Alex Williamson's "The Big Tree," just to give you a bigger picture: https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1951&star=false So, the big-picture countries are France, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, and England (Shaddix is usually an English surname). Then, even on Alex's tree, the BY3265 countries are only France and Spain. BY3265 looks to be from about 1000 BC, and trying to determine whether it first occurred in France or Spain is definitely a job for Gareth and/or Stephen. Good luck!
Dave Jurriaans
March 18 @ 4:29pm
In 2008 I had my dna tested with igenea,They gave my primitive tribe as:Celt and country of origin:France.My haplogroup for now is R-Z202.
Douglas Smith
March 20 @ 12:39am
Dave, We have corresponded here on this project before. That is great to hear about your 2008 Y-DNA test results with iGENEA, which classified you as being descended from a Celtic tribe from France! These are all of the men (myself included) on Alex Williamson's "The Big Tree," who are descended from the Z264 block (which includes Z202): https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1081&star=false Have you taken the Big Y-700 test at FTDNA? I think iGENEA is a great and wonderful company, but, since 2008, there is so much more information available regarding Y-DNA, especially here at FTDNA. The Big Y-700 test will reveal to you the exact one of these branches in which you belong.
Fabrice Delangre
March 28 @ 11:29pm
Douglas, yes I know the By3266 Tee on Ytree. I am a relatively "close" cousin of Chad Stoll, when we compare our Y-DNA (our common ancestor in direct paternal line would ave lived around 1240). BY3265 seems to be french indeed
Jacob Wolfe Jacob Wolfe has a question!
March 4 @ 4:55pm
My father's haplogroup is R-Z198. Will the Big Y or the Z198 snp pack be the best test to do? Will the Big Y give me a different terminal snp than the Z198 snp pack?
Jonathon Bruce #859938
March 5 @ 1:48pm
Only if you have matches beyond that point. Which I believe you would. Big Y is the best to find terminal snp.
Douglas Smith
March 6 @ 1:37am
Jacob, The Big Y test is always the best test to take, because it is a discovery test that will give you the most information about yourself and your Y-DNA ancestors. However, FTDNA recommends that two men who take the Big Y test be at least Y-DNA 3rd cousins (have a common Y-DNA 2nd great-grandfather), and preferably be Y-DNA 4th cousins (have a common Y-DNA 3rd great-grandfather). If two men take the Big Y test who are closer than this, they will not learn anything new from their Big Y test. So, if your father already took the Big Y-700 test, then you should not take it. If he took a Y-DNA SNP Pack Test to arrive at R-Z198, and that is how you know he is positive for it, then you should go ahead and take the Big Y-700 test. The Big Y-700 test will give you about 700 Y-DNA STRs, and it will reveal all of your Y-DNA SNPs to the year you were born. The Y-DNA SNPs are what trace the direct male bloodline. Then, the Y-DNA STRs can be used to figure out branching points within a Y-DNA SNP Family. According to Dr. Iain McDonald's R1b-P312 Table: http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/p312/table.html the Y-DNA SNP, Z198, occurred about 2620 BC with a range of (3289 BC — 2011 BC). Like Jonathon Bruce wrote above, if you take the Big Y-700 test, you will probably match other men who are below Z198, which Jonathon and I both are. The only reason you wouldn't receive a current terminal Y-DNA SNP below Z198 is if you don't match any other men, and that would make you a very rare man. My Y-DNA ancestor who immigrated to the USA was a Swedish Lutheran sailor who changed his surname from Alexandersson to Smith. What about you, Jacob? What is the origin of your Y-DNA Wolfe ancestors?
Jacob Wolfe
March 9 @ 12:49pm
Jacob is my father. He only has one match on a 37 marker test with a GD of 2 with no known common ancestors. He has no matches on a 67 or 111 marker test. His earliest known ancestor is John Wolf born 1770-1780 from Schulylkill County, PA who moved to western PA. I am going to pay for his match on the 37 marker test to take an autosomal test to see if we have any shared ancestors since I am at a ded end. I have not found another male descendant of John Wolf to test although he had sons. That's why I wonder if the Big Y will help me other than on his deep ancestry. My father died in 2014 so he cannot provide a new DNA sample and his current sample at Family Tree DNA has been tested a few times. They still have his sample but cannot tell me if there is enough to do the Big Y without trying it. He has no sons, brothers, or nephews living. Thank you for your input.
Scott Miller Scott Miller
March 5 @ 1:27pm
How often does FTDNA update Y-DNA groupings? Several months ago I tested with Big Y700 and was assigned R-Z206 and I logged into today and my group is now R-BY3222
Douglas Smith
March 6 @ 12:21am
Scott, Probably Monday through Friday, sometime between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., Central Time (the timezone of FTDNA's Headquarters in Houston, Texas, USA). So, if you logged-in yesterday and you were still at one Y-DNA SNP, and then you logged-in today and you have a different current terminal Y-DNA SNP, then they probably just discovered that you are positive for that Y-DNA SNP today. FTDNA's Head Y-DNA SNP Caller and Namer is Michael Sager. On behalf of all of us men here on this project, thank you for taking the Big Y-700 test! Your test results will not only move you closer to the present, but they will help all of us learn how closely we are related to you, and help some of us move closer to the present, as well. They will also help you move even closer to the present as more men test and match you. Here are all of the men on your R-BY3222 branch of Alex Williamson's "The Big Tree": https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=853&star=false Here are all of the men on our R-Z195 branch of Alex's Y-DNA SNP Tree: https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=30 Dr. Iain McDonald has been working on dating the Y-DNA SNPs of all of us R1b-P312 men. Here is a weblink to his work-in-progress R1b-P312 Table: http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/p312/table.html It begins with P312, and our major branch, DF27, begins about 2 3/4 pages below that. On Iain's Table, he lists DF27 as occurring about 3028 BC with a range of (3741 BC — 2423 BC). From there, scroll-down to our Z198 branch, and browse further. When you reach the L165 branch, you have gone too far. M7953 is equvalent to ZS312. M167 is equvalent to SRY2627. I am among the CTS4299 men, so, according to Alex's Tree, our most recent common father is Mister/Señor/Monsieur/Herr/Herre Z206. Now, Iain's Table doesn't list Z206 or any of its equivalents. Rather, it lists M167/SRY2627, in 1305 BC, and Z208 (a son of Z206), in 995 BC. We could just pick a year in between the two and say that Z206 occurred about 1150 BC, however, Alex's Tree lists Z206 as a 2nd great-grandson of (4 steps below) M167/SRY2627, so, maybe it's closer to 1100-1025 BC. From Z206, you descend from his son, BY3222, and I descend from his son, Z208. So, I guess if you're looking for a timeframe for the occurrance of BY3222, it's about 1000 BC. My Y-DNA ancestor who immigrated to the USA was a Swedish Lutheran sailor who changed his surname from Alexandersson to Smith. I have a Miller family on my mother's side who are Scottish Presbyterians and a Sept of Scottish Clan MacFarlane. What about you, Scott? What is the origin of your Y-DNA Miller family?
Scott Miller
March 6 @ 9:39am
Thank you for the response. I assume in the future I will have further changes as they are 30 terminal SNPs downstream from R-BY3222 I have not been tested for. I assume my father's line is German as great grandparents were Catholic Germans from Russia, now day Ukraine. I know the autosomal dna results are definitely estimates but I have tested with all of the major sites and my so called German dna ranges from 65% to 100% depending on the site. My father's line is the weakest part of my family tree. Looking at the R-BY3222 table you sent, I tested negative for CTS4549 so it leaves three people in the far right two columns as possible matches.
Gareth Henson
March 7 @ 2:30am
Scott, your original Big Y results were inconclusive for BY3222, it looks like the FTDNA lab retested just this one SNP in order to confirm your place on the tree. I think this is a change of policy - previously Big Y testers were told that no-call SNPs would not be retested for free. You can assume that you are negative for all SNPs downstream of BY3222 which are already on the tree, but you have 45 private variants which occurred in the last 3,000 years or so. When someone sharing BY3222 and a subset of those variants gets a Big Y test, the ones which are no longer private will be added to the tree and your terminal SNP will change.
Scott Miller
March 7 @ 9:53am
Appreciate your response, very helpful.
Ronald Martin Ronald Martin has a question!
February 19 @ 4:47pm
I received the result of my BigY700 test and my son previously tested for the BigY500 and they found a new Terminal SNP for the two of us which is R-BY160431. The previous Terminal SNP for my son was R-S16490. I would like to find the age of these SNP markers. Do you have information on how this is accomplished?
Johan Kranenburg Johan Kranenburg has a question!
December 30 @ 4:35am
Mijn definitieve haplogroep is R-BY3221 (ontstaan ca. 2000 jaar geleden). In de Big-Y-Block Tree ben ik gekoppeld aan een persoon uit Equatoriaal-Guinea in Afrika. Zou dit de vader (danwel een voorvader) kunnen zijn van Mario Eworo die oorspronkelijk uit Catalonië kwam? Met vriendelijke groet, Johan Kranenburg
Johan Kranenburg
December 30 @ 9:37am
Overigens heb ik volgens mijn geschatte Autosomale DNA-test voor 95% de Engelse etniciteit (MyHeritageDNA), Met vriendelijke groet, Johan Kranenburg
Johan Kranenburg
January 5 @ 8:39pm
ik heb dus niets te maken met Equatoriaal-Guinea. Mijn familie komt uit Nederland. Kennelijk zijn er nog 14 tot 20 onbekende haplogroepen danwel SNP’s (berekend over 2.000 jaar). De wijsheid komt van .dr. Iain McDonald ((gemiddeld één mutatie per 100-144 jaar). Met vriendelijke groet. Johan Kranenenburg
Johan Kranenburg
January 5 @ 8:39pm
m'n donatie heb ik reeds voldaan.
Johan Kranenburg
January 20 @ 7:49am
Mijn definitieve haplogroep is BY3221 (BY3223, A7415, A7414, CTS10339, A7416, CTS11799) en is ca. 2.000 jaar geleden ontstaan. Per 100-144 jaa treedt één mutatie op. Er zijn dus nog 14 tot 20 onbekende haplogroepen danwel SNP’s. Zijn deze onbekende haplogroepen (snp's) wel gearchiveerd danwel benoemd?
Johan Kranenburg Johan Kranenburg has a question!
November 11 @ 9:49am
Hallo, Mijn vastgestelde haplogroep in mijn grote Y is R-BY3221 ( CTS11799). Kunt u mij vertellen wanneer en waar R-BY3221 ( CTS11799) ongevver ontstaan is? Met vriendelijke groet, Johan Kranenburg
Gareth Henson
November 11 @ 2:20pm
Goedenavond Johan. Jouw haplogroep is een tak van R-CTS4549 die in heel West-Europa is gevonden, van Portugal tot Nederland. R-CTS4549 is ongeveer 2.000-2.500 jaar oud en R-BY3221 is waarschijnlijk een paar honderd jaar jonger.
Johan Kranenburg
November 12 @ 4:03am
hartelijk dank
Johan Kranenburg
December 24 @ 8:38pm
dus R-BY3221 is ca. 2000 jaar geleden ontstaan?
Johan Kranenburg
December 24 @ 8:39pm
Met vriendelijke groet
Johan Kranenburg Johan Kranenburg has a question!
November 11 @ 9:49am
kitnr IN67900
Louis Bruce Louis Bruce
October 8 @ 8:41am
my ancient population i belong to Celt + Frank (6.146) Viking Icelandic + Frank (6.174) Frank (7.992) Celt (8.239) Viking Icelandic (11.65) my modern population 1. North_German (8.308) 2. South_Dutch (9.503) 3. Southeast_English (10.57) 4. Irish (10.68) 5. Southwest_English (11.47) 6. Danish (11.47) 7. West_Scottish (11.62) 8. North_Dutch (12.47)
Jay Rury
October 9 @ 12:20am
What do the numbers in the parenthesis represent?
Louis Bruce
October 9 @ 7:42am
Genetic distance measures how close you are to a given sample. 10 means this is your ancient ancestry 20 means this is part of your ancestral link 30 means possibly related to your ancestry /// This is their explanation of the numbers
Louis Bruce
October 9 @ 7:51am
I used my 23&me kit for this because they include a basic Y and MTDNA in their autosomal test They show my father and myself as R-M167 my mtdna is T2b. Of coarse I have a Y test and deep clade here and a ff our ftdna Y group is sry2627. My point with this is I'm not showing any ancient matches in Iberia at all. They most certainly have ancient samples from this area
Louis Bruce Louis Bruce
October 8 @ 8:33am
This map is a comparison with my Father. The white dots are maternal matches for me. The grey dots are ones my Father has only. The Green are locations I share with my Father
Louis Bruce Louis Bruce
October 8 @ 8:22am
I joined My True Ancestry I paid into 2nd to the top level here are the Ancient samples I am related to paternally by blood.