SUMMER SALE: HOT SAVINGS ON FAMILY FINDER, Y-DNA, AND MTDNA TESTS

England GB Groups EIJ

E I J G R1 England Scotland Wales Ireland Norman & All Others
  • 4348 members
Are you a member of the England GB Groups EIJ project?
Pinned Posts
David Langton David Langton
Admin
August 14 @ 12:13am
Now is the time to love your DNA. Here is the Summer Sale: https://www.familytreedna.com/
David Langton David Langton
Admin
Yesterday at 1:47am
https://news.sky.com/story/heatwave-reveals-englands-buried-history-11472604 More ancient sites revealed. Hope this plays everywhere.
Peter Gossage c/o Denise (daughter)
22 hours ago
Thank you, DavidL. Weird though it sounds, the pictures wouldn't show in Firefox but was perfect in Safari! The text was fine in both...
David Farrel*
17 hours ago
Fascinating stuff. Thank you mother nature for revealing these hidden treasures...not so much for the heat and drought though. Guess we can't have it both ways, eh.
B. Williams B. Williams
19 minutes ago
Forgive me my American lack of knowledge. I have ancestors that were royalty in the British Isles. Around the 1400's through about 1650's. Where could I look for information on why the left? They eventually became quite poor as time went on here in America. Edward the III and Queen Elizabeth I shows up. But no idea why the left!!! My tests showed that I am 95% English! If this is too silly to answer let me know.
Robin Spencer Robin Spencer
August 9 @ 4:55pm
Convergence is, conceptually, a solved problem -- at least to me. It's all written up and illustrated at http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/gg.html?rr=convergence (if that doesn't work, just try http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/gg.html and navigate to Research Reports > Convergence). I'm heavily indebted to Maurice Gleeson who convinced me of the importance of the problem, and gave me feedback along the way. Happy to get your feedback of course; maybe for that guy who left I'll sketch this up as a Japanese "graphic novel"...
31 Comments
Robin Spencer
18 hours ago
Brian, you're quite right -- only 1-2% of our DNA codes for proteins; the rest used to be called "junk DNA" but now we know that a good bit must have regulatory functions; the latest I've seen suggests that 8-12% "does something" and so maybe 80%+ really is junk! Many molecular biologists have looked hard for functions and explanations for 20 years, and that's where we are. Evidently we large creatures aren't under the same efficiency constraints as a tighty packed virus -- we can happily carry along a lot of extraneous DNA, and that includes all of the SNPs and STRs that we find useful here. We have 21,000 genes and the little water flea Daphnia has 30,000. My favorites are plants: a little Japanese flower has 50 times more DNA than we do. The onion has 12 times more. Lilies have 30 time more. Remarkably this baggage doesn't extract much of a cost, or selection pressure would have pruned it way down long ago. Viruses, and to a lesser extent bacteria, are however under strong constraints, probably just due to their tiny size. I think the argument for lack of function for STRs is just in their statistics. We can account for their properties with pretty simple random models. If they had a function, you'd expect selection pressure (the mechanism of evolution) to exert itself and reduce that variability -- a lot. I'm not familiar with the literature but can guess that biologists have very good statistical tests for selection (which implies a function) vs neutral (which implies no function -- or one that doesn't matter, maybe like eye color). The same holds true for the SNPs we use: if a base pair in the middle of a useful gene gets zapped, then it will usually be strongly selected away (like hemophilia, due to a simple SNP mutation in a clotting enzyme). But the nicely behaved random statistics of SNPs strongly suggest that they're just single-base mutations out in the wide stretches of DNA that doesn't do anything important for our survival.
Arthur Barker
12 hours ago
And according to David Reich, citing others, the era of low-hanging fruit with regard to simple genetic connections to particular traits, conditions, diseases, etc. is about over. Or at least the dream that everything would be so simple is now in decline. Many things are incredibly complex in terms of just how many genetic factors may be implicated and he was frankly pessimistic that humans would ever be able to resolve some of these because of the amount of effort it would take. He labeled the necessary amount of work, a genetic Manhattan Project. The more we learn; the more complex this becomes. And that is nowhere more true than SNP testing.
Warren Power *
4 hours ago
Oh .... so we are not talking about tree tomatoes (Tamarillos)?
Brian Colquhoun
1 hour ago
Arthur, that's where AI comes in...for better or worse.
Glenn Kelley Glenn Kelley has a question!
August 8 @ 6:41pm
Do the EIJG members here feel their lineages predate the Celtic R1b invasion of the British Isles, or reflect Roman, Anglo-Saxon and Norman invasions? How can one tell the difference?
36 Comments
Glenn Kelley
18 hours ago
Hey, what's with this "we all agree" business? My whole identity is on the line here! :-O ;-)
Bill Wheeler
14 hours ago
DNA is not Culture, National, Religious nor does it have country boundaries. It is what it is!
Robert Avery
4 hours ago
Here is a beautiful denarius of Julius Caesar. The reverse depicts a trophy of captured Gallic arms with two Gallic captives seated below. The obverse depicts Venus - the mythological ancestor of the Julian Gens ... https://www.ma-shops.com/gin/item.php?id=3372&lang=en
Brian Colquhoun
2 hours ago
Back to EIJG. E-BY5775 here. (waiting on BigY500 since April). Believed to be the Roman connection. Archeological evidence of Thracians has been found in the land of my ancestors (did they stay there for >1000years?). There is a member of the Calhoun project doing great work on this with the Fluxus Network software.
Garth Graham Garth Graham
August 7 @ 1:07pm
I think it's time for the laugh of the day: Group Project: EnglandGBGroupseijNorman Member Name: bla bla bla Kit #:ja ja ja The Reason for Leaving: Too much technical jargon
19 Comments
David Farrel*
Yesterday at 5:43pm
Recycle it my way Denise.
Peter Gossage c/o Denise (daughter)
21 hours ago
If you are you able to wait that long, and depending on the postage, David, it's a deal!
Warren Power *
5 hours ago
Thanks for the reply Denise. I might go back to Amazon and read the pieces of chapters they have allowed to see just how well it presents and I understand it. If all good I will go back to fishpond and buy it for their $AU35.00 ...free shipping is their forte I guess. Thanks.
Brent Graham
3 hours ago
Hey now! You're talking about my family there!
David Langton David Langton
Admin
August 5 @ 3:26pm
So we are getting close to 4321 members. I think I need to be quiet for a bit and concentrate on subgrouping new members.
8 Comments
Arthur Barker
August 14 @ 12:01am
Then do you contradict yourself, sir?
Robert Avery
Yesterday at 12:15pm
Extra points to Glenn for the Walt Whitman!
Glenn Kelley
17 hours ago
I think that I shall never see A poem lovely as a tree. — "Trees", by Val Kilmer's cousin
Robert Avery
6 hours ago
I think that I shall never see A billboard lovely as a tree Indeed unless the billboards fall I'll never see a tree at all Ogden Nash
Matthew Kelley Matthew Kelley
19 hours ago
I have an unexpected development. A gentleman from Ireland with surname Kelly just got his Family Finder results and matches me. More importantly, he also matches Michael O' Driscoll, who's paternal line immigrated much later than mine and who is a Big Y match. I have encouraged him to take a y test.
2 Comments
David Farrel*
17 hours ago
Matthew, how close with FF are we talking about?
Matthew Kelley
16 hours ago
5th-Remote cousin. 27cM 15 Longest Block. Not sure of the exact numbers with Michael but it is also 5th-Remote cousin. Michael and I are not Family Finder matches. I haven't had him check to see if the locations are the same yet.
Gavin Salvador
15 hours ago
My great great grandmother was Bridget Cassidy (born Higgins) from Galway. This system suggests that you and I have a match at Higgins. I would therefore suggest you start in Galway.
Matthew Kelley
13 hours ago
Gavin, were you talking to me (about Higgins/Galway in case our posts get separated by this activity feed)? If so, what system are you referring to when you say "This system suggests that you and I have a match at Higgins."
David Langton David Langton
Admin
Yesterday at 1:47am
https://news.sky.com/story/heatwave-reveals-englands-buried-history-11472604 More ancient sites revealed. Hope this plays everywhere.
Peter Gossage c/o Denise (daughter)
22 hours ago
Thank you, DavidL. Weird though it sounds, the pictures wouldn't show in Firefox but was perfect in Safari! The text was fine in both...
David Farrel*
17 hours ago
Fascinating stuff. Thank you mother nature for revealing these hidden treasures...not so much for the heat and drought though. Guess we can't have it both ways, eh.
Arthur  Barker Arthur Barker
July 29 @ 6:28pm
As Administrator David L. has said on more than one occasion, the intellectual talent in this Project is quite astonishing. Therefore, I would strongly recommend that you purchase or borrow a copy of David Reich's new book, "Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past", and read it. The number of new insights and corrections of past errors is just amazing. Reich is one of the scientific leaders in the new lower-cost whole genome sequencing field and as he said, he really regrets having to take time away from his research to explain the incredible revolution in thinking that is going on now, but he was pressed by others to do it. The cover of the book is quite unattractive in my opinion, but as the old saying goes, don't judge a book by its cover. This book is just incredible and could be the source of numerous threads on this Activity Feed, including a partial answer to Bob A.'s recent question about Nurture and Nature.
31 Comments
David Farrel*
Yesterday at 6:08pm
Robin, well said, and I, for one, do appreciate the ongoing dialog. I certainly wouldn't begin to argue that building a new venture such as this on solid science isn't an admirable objective. It most certainly is...more accurate data and a more accurate interpretation of that data leads to better results. Perhaps then I could confirm if Bob is my long lost brother or uncle or whatever. Unquestionably, some of us will be disappointed going forward. But, until Huxley's "ugly fact" becomes an actual undeniable fact, we must forge ahead with a "beautiful hypothesis" as the best thing going for us. I suppose my bottom-line point here is that much of this should be shared, chewed, and perhaps even digested by the brain trust at FTDNA, et. al. Is that your ultimate goal? If so, keep moving forward but also lets not forget that we have a group of folks here who want to know and feel relatively comfortable about their own "Bob" - within the framework of the results that FTDNA provides.
Arthur Barker
Yesterday at 11:18pm
David, I think this depends upon who is using the data for what, something I would imagine is close to your heart since you have always asked people, "What is your goal in doing this?" Robin, with his usual, admirable, clarity has outlined what he seeks to explore. Perhaps my "bark" conceals the fact that I do care that people understand what this genetic genealogy business is about and receive value for their money. It really isn't hard, but it is hidden in a cloud of terminology that causes people to roll their eyes and sometimes disappear. And is not helped by misleading, ambiguous and incorrect terms that people cannot relate to, or worse, wrongly relate to. No field of science would ever tolerate such verbal imprecision in their practitioners. The way you combined yDNA STR and atDNA data was brilliant and it allowed me to consider similar situations where alternative testing methods might be the most effective way to answer the questions people have. One size does not fit all at the individual level. And around every corner, there could be a surprise waiting. That's the fun of discovery. You never know. But equally, and I know you know this from our past discussions, people have to be prepared for the possibility that this tool will not produce the results they seek.
John Francis
Yesterday at 2:19am
What I wouldn't give to have mid-morning cream tea and biscuits everyday with this crowd (though, as an American, I am more of a coffee guy)! Thank you for the enlightening feedback. Robin, I did not mean to diminish your efforts in working with STRs (in the event that is how my statements were interpreted), in fact, I am undoubtedly one of your biggest fans. Nor did I mean to imply that there is definitively an "inherent limitation of STR statistics or biology" in general, only that I continue to find that the current models fall short in capturing all of the necessary variables to produce a wholly trustworthy model--which it appears that we are in full agreement. Your analysis on the probability of paternal lines dying out serves as part of the answer to the questions swirling around in my mind (though your explanation on "STR rules" has given me more to think about). When viewing STR data from a modern day perspective, it is hard for the feeble human mind (at least in my case) to conceive how many lines never survived through to modern day. Without these yDNA branches being represented in our samples, it ends up effectively altering STR distributions and misplacing certain mutation groupings (not across the "entire phylogenetic tree" as I previously misstated, but at least within subclade analysis). Regarding trans-111 STRs: I recently read an older article that discussed hand picking certain STRs to serve a particular purpose for research purposes. Could it be that there is a superior way to break up these 500-561 STRs into panels which are specifically designed to allocate all slower mutating STRs to the front and quicker mutating STRs at the end and then layering in each subsequent panel into the analysis (i.e. first applying the panel on slower mutating STRs and then layering in the slower mutating panels one by one) or, alternatively, handpicking a specific panel to address questions that pertain to a particular point in time? Please forgive me if my enthusiasm outpaces my understanding. My attempts to comprehend these things have been somewhat chaotic: one day reading journal articles on population genetics/anthro/forensics/etc., the next reviewing statistics, and the next trying to lay a basic foundation for genetics/molecular biology/chemistry/etc. (the latter being quite daunting for a social science guy).
Robin Spencer
17 hours ago
David, you're right that perhaps these threads go too far into nerdliness -- but I suppose that's up to those who keep them running and "like" the posts. What's funny is your suggestion that there's a brain trust at FTDNA --- I have no personal knowledge but can say that Maurice Gleeson and Iain McDonald would smirk at that suggestion. My sense is that FTDNA's heart is in the right place, but they're just stretched very thin, dancing as fast as they can with an unproven business model (look how 23andMe has moved into medical diagnosis: to monetize its collected data). I'm just happy if FTDNA does well enough to keep this fascinating thing going, and open enough for citizen-scientists to take part. I keep hoping that Bill Gates will get into genealogy and put this all on a Wikipedia-type footing (open, grass roots, supported by philanthropists).
Jonathon Bruce Jonathon Bruce has a question!
Yesterday at 10:29pm
So I tried uploading my Ancestry autosomal, had an error said dile not supported. What do I need to do? Also deleted that file re-downloaded and same error.
4 Comments
Jonathon Bruce
Yesterday at 11:08am
Thanks to all, got it uploaded.
Peter Gossage c/o Denise (daughter)
22 hours ago
I don't know if this will help anyone else. I have just received an e-mail with a link to Roberta Estes' DNA Explained blog: https://dna-explained.com/2018/08/15/ancestry-step-by-step-guide-how-to-upload-download-dna-files/ In this blog, she covers "each major vendor".
Robert King
21 hours ago
Jonathan, Besides uploading the raw data to FTDNA, I suggest you upload the same data to GEDmatch. It's free which is always helpful, plus folks who have tested at all 3 major testing firms can and have uploaded their autosmal data. Lots of good tools to help analysis your data.
Jonathon Bruce
18 hours ago
Thanks all, already loaded at gedmatch, went to load at geni.com, and they load from here.
Patrick O'Day Patrick O'Day has a question!
August 13 @ 10:06pm
Hi folks. I haven’t been keeping up. I would like to update my yfull tree with BAM file . Is it available from Ftdna yet? I entered my vcf last year
Glenn Kelley
August 13 @ 10:46pm
Go to Big Y-500 > Results > Download Raw Data, then on the popup window, choose "Share BAM" and you'll get a link which you can send to YFull.
Matthew Kelley
August 13 @ 11:35pm
It takes about 24 hours before the BAM file is generated and the "Share BAM" button appears. Once it does, click that button to get the link. Be sure the whole thing is highlighted before you right click and copy the link to paste in the "link to BAM file" box on the upgrade order form at YFull. To get that, go to your YFull account. Click on "Orders" in the upper right. There will be a little box button icon by which it says VCF>BAM 0$. Click that button to get the order form. Answer the questions and paste the link in the appropriate box. Submit. You will get an email when the initial SNP analysis is done. At that time the upgrades link on the left side menu will no longer be blank. It show a comparison between the vcf analysis and the BAM analysis....what changed. About two weeks later start checking to see if you have something on your age estimation page. Once you do, your kit will be included in the age estimation of your subclade. Between the email and this you may see snp changes as they manually review the automated results and compare to your matches' results. You may see str matches eventually but they are no good. YFULL IS only processing strs for new bam analyzed kits. Vcf upgrades won't get the strs from their bam file til October or November (estimated) so your so called matches for strs will be to the limited number of str's callable from the vcf (100-200 vs 450-567).
Patrick O'Day
Yesterday at 3:09pm
Thank you for your response to my question.
Peter Gossage c/o Denise (daughter)
21 hours ago
Good luck, Patrick!