Doherty Surname Group

Yeah, I think that Big Y matches tab is down more than it is up. I catch it in brief phases where it works but usually I get the script error (and this is trying through many accounts). I reminded FTDNA of it yet again and they claim to know and are working on it.

Thanks Zack. The BigY matches is one of the main parts of the sites to those who have bought BigY. I hope that this is fixed before the new upgrade to BigY. I haven't had any notification of that yet. Zack, one other thing, Do you have a way to contact FTDNA directly? I used to be able to email a particular person but now they just have a useless web form which doesn't allow for formal dialogue over issues, I am not able to find an email address.

I don’t have any direct access myself. I have used groups@ftdna.com to address issues with administrating projects but that is the only working email I know.

I've been in contact with FTDNA (concerning BigY website failure and people using older systems and browsers, script failures (gateway blocking), advert servers holding up or stopping connection and other website and communication problems) on their webchat and the person that I spoke to said that the FTDNA employee that deals with the aspects that I mentioned was away from work for a few days but that they would contact me by email early this week. I complained about ftdna not having a formal usable email address as opposed to the web form that they use now. I also tried to talk about issues of privacy and security in terms of the danger of external accessibility of third parties to our data and web profiling and advert tailoring associated with our web usage and presence within the context of our usage of FTDNA on the website and wider web.

No need to test his Y DNA for the most part. I imagine you've already tested him for autosomal DNA. If you really want to explore above him a few more generations test him at Ancestry (I'm not a fan of their lack of segment data but they are the largest database out there). If you can afford it you can test him also at 23andMe to capture matches that will have only tested there. Past this you can transfer into the other databases (FTDNA, MyHeritage, Living DNA, GEDmatch). Keep in mind a transfer into FTDNA will only report back matches that are 4th cousin or closer within their database because of differences in the chips used between the companies. So you don't know or have any cousins via your paternal grandfather, paternal great grandfather, etc? Genealogically speaking all your know about your ancestry stops with your father?

Thank you and yes, it stops with my father... No cousins that I know of. I don't even know how or when I got to the U.S.

I didn't know this. I think a lot of heavy lifting can hopefully be done with autosomal testing. If your father is up for it for sure test him at Ancestry at the minimum and transfer the RAW data for free to FTDNA, GEDmatch and MyHeritage. I imagine if you have done any autosomal testing on yourself that you already generate matches up through your father's paternal/maternal lines. The key will be trying to make sense of which matches are which. So you haven't been able to do any genealogy up above your father at all? Your paternal grandfather/grandmother are currently mysteries?

HI Zack, I do know the names of my grandparents, gg, ggg, etc but it stops around 1765 and the 1765 is not confirmed... It's only subjective genealogy that I have done online. None are alive and I never met any of them. The information I have stops with my father as he is the eldest patrilineal connection I have alive. However, the information my father was told as to where we came from was/is 100% false. He had no idea we were Irish/proto-Celt. He said that there were "only a couple children in each past generation" He also has no information other than what I have been able to discover on my journey. I will ask him to take the Ancestry autosomal YDNA and transfer to FTDNA.

I wouldn't like to think that that we are left out of a new era of dna after we have committed to all those previous tests in the hope that they meant something. Will all our previous tests and results be redundant in this new phase? I mean, should we ignore as false, all our previous data? To be perfectly honest, I have never understood most of it anyway, have depended on the advice of 'experts' and have lived in the hope that it would lead somewhere coherent and useful to me in my personal search. I've spent well over a decade trying to get some answers and I've hung on and upgraded, thinking that this might be the phase that unlocks it, the disappointment has been profound. Apart from the Niall of the Nine Hostages tag pronouncement which was later laughed at and ourselves scorned and years of frustration over the Michael Mor puzzle matches which still defeat me I don't have much that is understandable to me. I know that in yfull I am R-A12202, the same as Clan Chieftain lineage, my terminal with FTDNA BigY is (which used to be R-BY470) is now R-BY31357. I hardly know if I'm coming or going with it as I don't have the 'head' for these sorts of things. FTDNA doesn't help with it's overriding constant marketing strategy of devising new product and the corresponding spamming.

No, not at all. We are still a part of the haplotree refining itself as more and more testers come in with Big Ys. What may happen is that we may have either no-calls or under-read sections for areas which Big Y-700 testers may have "new" SNPs appear. Still waiting to see how FTDNA will address this but what will probably happen is that we (older Big Y testers) will probably be presumed to be positive for them if enough Big Y-700 testers around us have them. Not sure if I'm making much sense in how I envision this working. There are some testers like Pascual though that is sitting at BY31357 (as are you) which I'd venture to guess is around 1300-1400 AD. But he has only 1 novel variant left for future potential testers to match on. This is much mileage left in the Big Y in terms of resolving new SNPs since 1300-1400 AD so in a case such as his such an upgrade maybe recommended. Still personally as a simple volunteer and enthusiast I can't recommend that people through down more money though since right now the gain would be unknown to me.

Thanks Zack, much appreciated. I originally tested with an English company DNA Heritage back in 2004 and at that time there were no known testers of the same surname. I'll post a photo of the results above ...the company was taken over by FTDNA and my results are as extra results in FTDNA but probably can't be put in with the mix.

Here is a running analysis on coverage of each NGS (Next Generation Sequencing) test between FGC YElite, Big Y, Big Y-700, and other Whole Genome Sequencing offerings. https://haplogroup-r.org/stats.html

Personally, I would test both parents to a level I could afford and also check what the retention policy is at the testing company regarding the sample. You may want to upgrade testing levels or as updated testing apparatus comes available. I wish I had done this before my parents passed.

Linda, if you goals in the mtDNA is to explore her Doherty ancestry keep in mind that this type of DNA tracks only through the matriline (mother's mother's mother's etc. line). So you can characterize your female Doherty ancestor's mtDNA, but above/beyond this ancestor it continues on through whomever was married to her Doherty father which I presume isn't a Doherty. How far back is your mother's Doherty ancestor?

Just ordered the Big Y-700.

Colin, So your goals are much like mine and many others in that you are hoping to determine a relative point of origin that your brickwall ancestor came from. I will be honest in saying that unless you have a much closer Y-DNA than I immediately am seeing on my end, you will end up matching others tested probably as recent as 1500 AD or so (again, a guess but Big Y-700, mostly with its SNP portions will help me narrow this down more). A famine immigrant is relatively recent in time in terms of genealogy. In fact I think that autosomal DNA can be a big supporter in this effort. I know you have Family Finder already, which is good. Have you also tested at Ancestry with their autosomal test? Given that their database is 10X+ larger than Family Tree DNA's it can potentially link you with some testers in Ireland or even other immigrant ancestors on your Dougherty line that do know where their ancestor came from. AtDNA is a bit more tricky in that one needs to test the oldest generation relatives they have on the line they are wishing to research and try to test as many of them as they can convince to test. For example, I've catalogued over 100 autosomal testers at Ancestry that are descendants of my brickwall Daugherty that possibly immigrated in the 1790s to the U.S. (only say possibly because I'd like to see more documented proof that he was the immigrant). These 100+ testers all have portions of autosomal DNA that I can track to my brickwall Daugherty and his wife...some of these portions of DNA are even making connections to some testers in Ireland that never left. Now a famine immigrant is even 1-2 generations closer than my brickwall example...so autosomal testing of the highest generation descendants from your brickwall ancestor should more easily make connections to testers in Ireland. I've had good success testing 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousin descendants from my ancestor to cast that wide net underneath him and obtain as much as his DNA and matches as possible. With a lack in 1700s Irish records I still haven't solved where he came from but with a lot of atDNA testing and Big Y I've focused on some areas within Donegal that could be potential areas my ancestor likely set off from. We'll see as more and more testers come into play. The Daugherty/Dougherty spelling bit I wouldn't worry about too much. My own family the brickwall ancestor was both DOUGHERTY and DAUGHERTY in records. A copy of an original land exchange that my brickwall wrote copied him as DAUGHERTY. His eldest son (my 4th great grandfather) also claimed to a step daughter that the proper spelling was DAUGHERTY. He his youngest brother and all his descendants used DOUGHERTY. There wasn't anything religious involved in this particular example. Oral history of my family and biographical sketches written on his youngest son in 1880 who used the spelling DOUGHERTY state that the brickwall ancestor Charles actually trained as a catholic priest before leaving Ireland. But converted in the U.S. given that he married a German descendant practicing as a Dunkard (Church of Brethren). Also on the SNP BY31357 the vast majority of anyone using DAUGHERTY, DOUGHERTY, DOHERTY and DOGHERTY are all positive for this SNP and some are from specific places in Donegal even. I estimate this SNP to be around 1200-1300 AD or so. All testers in this tree within Alex Williamson's Big Tree (uses only Big Y data) are positive for this SNP: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=593

Zack, Thanks so much for your thoughts and the benefit of your hard earned experience. I started with Ancestry and will continue to explore what I can learn from studying my autosomal matches and corresponding with other testers there. Almost all of my ancestors are from Ireland. Although rootsireland has allowed me to trace some lines as far back as the late 1700s, it is difficult to go past the Irish ancestor brickwalls even when the ancestors are Anglo-Irish Church of Ireland adherents. The records simply do not exist or do not seem to exist. Hats off to you for your creative use of Ancestry which allowed you to find so many descendants of your brickwall Daugherty. Very impressive and a testimony to your hard work and interest. Many others, including myself, have benefited.

Zack, this is a great outline as an approach for others to take. Well done!