Doherty Surname Group

O'Dochartaigh
  • 719 members
Are you a member of the Doherty Surname Group project?
LLOYD MINOR LLOYD MINOR
March 5 @ 2:02pm
So, yesterday or today, FTDNA has changed my confirmed haplogroup badge on my dashboard from R-BY31357 to R-Y137170.
Ronald (Nutt) Cast
March 5 @ 2:12pm
I saw that, they posted it on Sons of Aodh project. Great. I’m jealous, I want six numbers now.
Zack Daugherty
March 5 @ 2:37pm
Nice, I was worried it was going to stay at BY31357 for months and that I would have had to create a ticket to get you moved to the proper place. Glad they took care of it relatively quickly.
Zack Daugherty
March 5 @ 2:38pm
They beat Alex Williamson somewhat on the punch where he still hasn't finalized you; however, he did have you put into the correct position from the get-go. http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=593
LLOYD MINOR
March 28 @ 12:02pm
Zack, please take a look at me on Alex Williamson's tree. He seems to have me finalized. I don't see any news, other than he shows two of my private variants as named FT SNPs (?) ...same as Astrid did. Please comment. Thanks.
Joshua Daugherty Joshua Daugherty
March 18 @ 11:24pm
After five and a half weeks, the FTDNA folks have completed their review of my dad's results and my results. All of our private variants have now been reclassified as named/shared variants. Our new haplogroup is R-FT209229. Once I get my dad's permission, I'll upload his data to the Y-DNA Data Warehouse so it can go up on the Big Tree. Meanwhile, my one solid contact with a descendant of my MDKA has gone quiet since late December. I guess I'll have to cast out for some new leads for potential Y-DNA testers.
LLOYD MINOR LLOYD MINOR
February 26 @ 6:15pm
Finally, today I got posted results on my Big Y 700. It puts me at BY31357. I need help to know what steps to take next. Thanks!
5 Comments
LLOYD MINOR
March 2 @ 6:39pm
Thank you!
LLOYD MINOR
March 2 @ 6:44pm
Btw, Zack, I did get an acknowledgement email from the warehouse.
Zack Daugherty
March 3 @ 7:22am
Llyod, I was wrong because FTDNA wasn’t really reporting everything for you in the automated part of their Big Y analysis. They still need to do a manual review but your tentative location is much further down beneath BY31357 and next to Michael Lacopo’s grandfather Harold and all the targeted testers of his including Glenn Stroup, so you should be Y137170. For some reason Y137170 is showing up only as its position number on the Y chromosome under your private variants tab. If this stays like this for 8 weeks or so I’ll ask FTDNA to fix it. You can see your correct position here: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=3614.
LLOYD MINOR
March 3 @ 2:22pm
Thanks again, Zack, and also for moving me to the Y137170 group on the DNA spreadsheet.
Zack Daugherty Zack Daugherty
Admin
October 10 @ 11:48am
Do any Doherty project members (regardless of your surname or surname spelling) here have samples at YSEQ.net, Thomas Krahn's lab? I ask because earlier this year a Whole Genome Sequence on my father uncovered more SNPs not covered by Big Y 700 but they are within a stable enough of region of the Y chromosome to be considered as phylogenetically relevant (i.e., tree defining between testers). Through pinpointing various "close" Doherty testers within a 500-600 year range of my family group and testing them at YSEQ I've more or less places most of these new SNPs to within the last 500 years of my family. That being said I have 1 SNP that appears to be older and I would kind of like to find out how far up into the O'Dochartaigh Group 1 tree it goes. The SNP is 'A24484' which is YSEQ's SNP naming scheme, the 'A' comes from the owner's wife Astrid, the number is simply the sequential number of SNPs their lab discovered...sames as how BY#### is simply the sequential number of SNPs FTDNA discovered...but for some reason they are also now using FT (Family Tree) to name new SNPs... Anyways if anyone above SNP FGC52373 has a DNA sample in storage at YSEQ.net I'd be willing to paypal them $18 to test this SNP A24484 at YSEQ (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=107067). It would be great to define how far up this SNP goes...it may well even go up above/beyond BY471 which Group 1 O'Dochartaigh are based on. Feel free to ask any questions here or email me at zack.dohertysurname@gmail.com Zack Volunteer Administrator
Zack Daugherty
March 1 @ 9:07am
So an update on this SNP A24484 that was again found in my father's Whole Genome Sequence but not covered by Big Y 500 or Big Y 700. I've target tested this SNP in various testers up the chain from my position within Group 1 O'Dochartaighs. I discovered that it at least formed by FGC52372 by testing men that share that clade with my family. I then tested a person on the other side of BY471 near the McDevitt branch who came back NEGATIVE, so if formed after SNP BY471. I then recently tested Paul Dougherty who was kind enough to agree since he was more closely related to my family group sharing a most recent common ancestor of BY31357, and his results were NEGATIVE as well. This means this particular SNP formed AFTER BY31357 and either by the unknown ancestor that FGC52374 formed in or by the unknown ancestor FGC52372 formed in. Either way I've been able to sandwich it down further into its position in our localized tree. It isn't on this chart but you can see the other SNPs I was referring to. I crossed out the places it doesn't exist by testing these various men for $18 single SNP tests at YSEQ. This exercise of course isn't breaking down a brickwall, but in the future it can be valuable to document the formation of every SNP down a subclade path and determine where in the tree/hierarchy it formed. This way if we ever saturate testing of men with unknown relationships to us in our various subclades we can better determine how far or how recent the splits between us and them maybe. I.e., providing more granularity. https://i.ibb.co/P4F9KT5/image.png
Joshua Daugherty Joshua Daugherty
February 7 @ 10:25pm
I got an update on my wished SNPs from YSEQ today. I thought I'd share so that more people would know what goes down. On December 22, 2019, I placed the "Wish a SNP" order for the 15 of my private SNPs that were within what YSEQ defined as acceptable regions of the Y chromosome. Today, I got the update from YSEQ: "We've designed primers for the ok markers and we'll order them from our supplier. Your SNPs are now available at YSEQ." This was for all 15 of the SNPs. The process was 47 days from start to finish. One is named starting in Y, already existing in YFull's index from 2017, observed below I-CTS10228 > SK1241. Thirteen started with FT, already existing in FTDNA's index from 2019 ... I'm guessing from my Big Y 700. And one started with A, with "Joshua Daugherty (2019)" as the reference, so YSEQ got to name this one ... and I helped! (yay Shake and Bake) My dad's Big Y 700 test is estimated to be complete in the next few weeks. After seeing those results, I guess I'll wish a SNP Panel of our shared SNPs downstream of S18890. The sum of all 15 SNPs is $270. It looks like a panel would maybe cost less than that overall. And after that, try to get some any of the descendants of my MDKA to throw some cheek cells into the fray ... either with this wished panel or during the next big sale on Big Y 700. ----- As far as researching Josiah Daugherty, my MDKA, I've reached out to all of the Hart men in my Y-STR matches (of which there are many) and I've at least started the conversation with them. I've been able to build out a tree connecting several of them to a common ancestor (for them, at least). One interesting thing is that the name Josiah is repeated in one particular line of those Hart men. I have three Josiah Daugherty men in my direct paternal line (including the MDKA). There are six more Josiah Daugherty men that are descendants of the MDKA, as well as three more Josiah men of other surnames that are also descendants of the MDKA. A popular name. Possibly significant, but possibly coincidence.
1 Comment
Zachary Daugherty
February 10 @ 2:44pm
Hey Josh, Yes, it takes 2-4 or 6 weeks for FTDNA haplotree manager to move you and Dale both down further. Note that sometimes FTDNA will only list a positive SNP as one with 10 or more reads of the same base nucleotide.
Joshua Daugherty
February 12 @ 9:35am
Just for my own curiosity, has someone documented this process anywhere? Or is it just a process that just gets noticed over time? Or fancy group manager inside knowledge?
Zack Daugherty
February 17 @ 4:30pm
Joshua, Documented what process exactly? The manual review process that FTDNA has to do in follow-up to two Big Y testers that should end up creating new clades? No, that really hasn't been posted anywhere. How I and other administrators have become aware of it over the last few years is that we manually see 2+ new Big Y testers share many novel variants but their terminal SNP stays the same and the shared novel variants stay in each tester's novel variants tab. So after awhile I write an email to FTDNA to point this out. They generally will review this and make the appropriate changes; however, they ask that we not bug them too much on these changes as they should automatically get to them in 4-8 weeks after the results post. So they've told me this a few times over the years so I generally give them about 3 months before I bother them again if it hasn't been adjusted.
Joshua Daugherty
February 17 @ 7:35pm
Yes, that's what I was looking for. Thanks.
Zachary Daugherty Zachary Daugherty
December 10 @ 3:17pm
All, High resolution Image link: https://i.ibb.co/bvrHygd/screencapture-ytree-net-Display-Tree-php-2019-12-10-16-07-59.png A PSA on change-up to BY31357. It appears that Alex Williamson shifted several men beneath a new clade with SNPs ZS43 and Y32988. These variants aren't clearly read hence the description of bold grey SNPs in his tree: SNP names which are bold grey indicates that their exact position on the tree is uncertain. This SNP may belong further upstream or all downstream branches may not be positive for it. This is often the case for SNPs found in FGC kits or 1kG kits in regions not covered by BigY tests. This is likely a results of the continue expansion using higher coverage Big Y 700 test data. The resulted in DOUGHERTY 38178 and O'DOGHERTY 31706 that were previously sitting basal the long tester box at BY31357, to being shifted to the basal level of this new subclade. On a different note the addition of KELLY B313284 matching private variants to DOCHERTY 103960 resulted in another new clade beneath BY31357.
12 Comments
Paul Dougherty
December 29 @ 8:06pm
Yes Zack, I've joined YSEQ O'Dochartaigh group
Paul Dougherty
February 12 @ 7:39pm
My results for the Y32988 YSEQ tests have arrived Tuesday 11 Feb 2020 Date Ordered: Tuesday 17 December, 2019 Quick results summary: Y32988 A+ I've emailed Alex Williamson of 'The Big Tree' to let him know, I now have a couple of nice fresh samples in with YSEQ for any future test.
Paul Dougherty
February 16 @ 11:48am
I don't understand much about dna etc and I think I got the wrong end of the stick when I ordered Y32988. I didn't understand that it was the marker that was indeterminate and not me...and that is why it was greyed out on Alex Williamson's 'The Big Tree' Anyway, Alex says that he was happy that I tested for it and I have those samples now at YSEQ for any future tests..
Zack Daugherty
February 17 @ 4:26pm
I definitely wouldn't view it as a bad purchase and it is most definitely great to have samples in storage at YSEQ. It was more that FTDNA simply does not have hardly any enriched reads in that area. The Big Y 700 had only 2 reads for you in that spot, one read 'A' which is the mutation for the SNP, the other read was 'G' which is the ancestral (or meaning there was no mutation). So it isn't so much that the marker or you were indeterminate but more that FTDNA simply didn't hardly read the spot very well. And it isn't even a "troublesome" or "useless" position from what I can tell either so it should be more clearly sampled by FTDNA, in my opinion. Here is what it looks like when manually viewed at FTDNA in the BAM browser. https://i.ibb.co/gW9pgHH/image.png
Paul Dougherty Paul Dougherty
December 13, 2017 @ 6:56pm
1 Comment
Mervyn Dougherty
December 31 @ 10:59pm
Merv DOUGHERTY doubledoc@xtra.co.nz
Paul Dougherty
January 4 @ 12:09am
Merv Do you have any more information about the Lyndsay Doherty 1805 Derry?
Ronald (Nutt) Cast
January 6 @ 9:18am
Yep, your first on my Big Y list. I’m not sure why?
Zack Daugherty
January 6 @ 2:22pm
Ron, Merv is part of that new DF97+, BY471- clade adjacent to you.
Paul Dougherty Paul Dougherty
December 31 @ 9:16pm
Happy New Year everyone :)
Joshua Daugherty Joshua Daugherty
December 20 @ 2:41pm
My Big Y-700 results came about two months early. My terminal SNP is S18890. So it looks like my line split from the "main" chunk of Dohertys after R-L151. Either the FTDNA website is experiencing issues or my connection from work isn't playing well with their site, so I'll have to explore my results later / from home.
5 Comments
Joshua Daugherty
December 22 @ 2:41pm
Dale is my dad, yes. Edit #1: He has ordered the upgrade this morning. We understand that it will not have a direct impact on getting past the brick wall. It's mostly for the benefit of flipping the private SNPs to shared SNPs. I'll also wish the 16 SNPs at YSEQ. Question there... In the instructions for wishing a SNP, does "the ancestral and derived mutation bases” translate to reference and genotype respectively, as shown in FTDNA's Big Y results viewer, or is it genotype and reference respectively? I'm going to start reaching out to known descendants of my brick wall to gauge interest in Y testing. Edit #2: Dad's Big Y 700 is Batch 1041, expected completion date 02/16/2020 - 03/01/2020. I determined that Reference = Ancestral ... and Genotype = Derived. I've now "wished" 15 of my 16 private SNPs at YSEQ. One was inside the range for "synthetic assembled centromeric region, CEN” and the instructions said not to request those.
LLOYD MINOR
December 25 @ 1:52pm
Joshua, what was the elapsed time from ordering your Big Y-700 to delivery? Thanks!
Joshua Daugherty
December 25 @ 3:23pm
Ordered November 12, received December 20. The "expected" date was February 10-24. it was an upgrade from an existing Y-67 test.
LLOYD MINOR
December 26 @ 10:27am
Thanks, Joshua! FtDNA logged in my Big Y order on 11/21, so maybe some results soon now. Mine too was an upgrade from Y67.
Paul Dougherty Paul Dougherty
December 20 @ 3:45pm
Paul Dougherty
December 20 @ 3:47pm
This might be of interest to people who have not taken tests previously.
Zack Daugherty
December 20 @ 3:52pm
Thanks Paul, I hate having people spend more money but also getting a sample at YSEQ never hurts and isn't too expensive to do. They do have a bit more utility to immediately examine specific variants in a cost effective manner; even ones newly discovered. So it never hurts to try to do this in addition to testing at FTDNA. (Hopefully FTDNA won't frown on me saying this since it is a competitor owned/operated by one of their past employees).