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Official Smith/Schmidt/Smythe/Smidt DNA Project at FamilyTreeDNA
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Wallace Smith Wallace Smith
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April 14, 2018 @ 9:00am
I get this question often. OK, I’ll give you the basic overview. YDNA is passed only from father to son. It is the best way to locate potential paternal ancestors through STR matching. The Str markers mutate at a rate which allows for sorting out paternal ancestors in the genealogical time frame, say 5-10 generations back. MTDNA is passed only from mother to daughter therefore it is of no use in tracing one’s paternal line and is of limited use in finding a maternal ancestor. You would get hundreds of matches with people who have a common maternal ancestor 20.00 years ago or more. Autosomal DNA is passed down randomly from both parents, their parents and parent’s parents and so on back through history. The only way to tell which side a match may have passed through is to test many relatives with known relationships so you can compare and sort them out. There are 23 chromosomes in all humans. 1-22 are autosomal DNA, 23 is special, in that it is the one where you get your XDNA. A female has no YDNA because the father passes his XDNA that he got from his mother to daughters only. She gets X from both parents. The son gets X from mother and Y form father. So in summary, Yes, you may get some benefit by testing your autosomal DNA, but the only way to really prove a paternal match is to test a known male descendant of the direct line male to male from the earliest known ancestor to the male testee and hope for matches with someone who has a well documented tree and go from there.
28 Comments
M Peterson
Yesterday at 4:18pm
I believe the the matches are at 67, for me, 37 for my uncle Gordon and 67 for my 1st cousin Jim, I believe we show a 2 gen distance. I'm not certain about any of these numbers! I'm happy to provide our kit # or whatever I need to do for each of us, I would really like to better understand what I'm dealing with and what do I need to do to move forward !
Douglas Smith
Yesterday at 9:20pm
M, Congratulations on discovering some new information from your Y-DNA test that may lead you to the true identity of your Y-DNA great-grandfather (or at least his Y-DNA ancestors)! Your reply to Craig Smith's questions above sounds like you and Mr. Smith are a Genetic Distance of 2 at 67 Y-DNA STRs (is this correct?); that is a very close match! I don't even have one of those! FTDNA has a Learning Center. To access it, go to your FTDNA Home Page, scroll down to the bottom of the page, find the heading "Learning Center," and click on it. Here is a quick link to their answers to Y-DNA STRs questions: https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/ so that you can take a look at this topic right away, but, at some point, you should just browse all the different questions in their Learning Center. My questions, to add to Craig's, are: 1. What is your FTDNA Kit Number? (just for our reference to help you) 2. What is your major Y-DNA Haplogroup, and what is your current terminal Y-DNA SNP? (you can find this on your FTDNA Home Page; in the upper-right, there should be some banners; one of them is Y-DNA Haplogroup; that information is the letters and numbers in that banner) 3. What is Mr. Smith's major Y-DNA Haplogroup, and what is his current terminal Y-DNA SNP? (you can find this on your Y-DNA STRs Matches page) 4. Have you, your Y-DNA uncle, or your Y-DNA 1st cousin taken any Y-DNA SNP tests at FTDNA? (like an SNP Pack Test or Big Y-700)
James Peterson
21 hours ago
1) FTDNA Kit # 837318 is for 1st cousin Jim, 2) G-M201, 3) M-201 & current Terminal SNP M 201. I am taking care of, as best I can, My cousin Jim's , my Uncle uncle Gordon's and my Genealogy stuff. I don't know of any additional tests that have been taken on FTDNA. My Uncle Gordon's Kt # is 406702, my Kit # is 640595.
Douglas Smith
12 hours ago
M, Thank you for the information! I found you and your Uncle Gordon grouped together on page 1 of the DNA Results under Group GRP-G-M201-010. I found your 1st Cousin Jim at the bottom of page 6 in the Ungrouped section (he should be grouped with you and your uncle soon). So, all 4 of you men are G-M201. Wow! G is one of the rare Y-DNA SNP Haplogroups; that can be both a blessing and a curse when it comes to finding matches. However, in this case, with the 3 of you matching this Mr. Smith so closely, I will say it is a huge blessing! I have never corresponded with a man from haplogroup G before, so this is a great new experience! When I looked up G-M201, I found out that M201 is the starting SNP of haplogroup G; it is also known by its alternate name, PF2957. Here is a link to the ISOGG Y-DNA Haplogroup Trees from 2019: https://isogg.org/tree/index.html To view your haplogroup, click on G under the (except China users) heading. You will find yourself at the very beginning of haplogroup G. Y-DNA Haplogroup G has 2 main branches: G1 and G2. G1 branches off into: G1a and G1b. G2 branches off into G2a and G2b. In order to find out which branch you are under, you would have to test your Y-DNA SNPs. Eupedia is a very interesting website, however, being that your haplogroup G is so rare, they currently only have a detailed description of G2a: https://eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_G2a_Y-DNA.shtml but please go to this website using this link and read this information, because it also includes a general description of G. And who knows, with further testing, you may find out that you are under G2a. If you have not already done so, you should join FTDNA's main Y-DNA Haplogroup G Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/g-uncategorized/about This is the project all men who are Y-DNA Haplogroup G should join first. The Project Administrators and Project Co-Administrators there are experts in Y-DNA Haplogroup G. They, and knowledgeable Project Members, will be able to answer all of your deep questions regarding G. If you test your Y-DNA SNPs, you will qualify to join additional G projects related to your further-refined branches. If you need help figuring out which ones to join, the G Project Administrators and Co-Administrators will be able to help you. You should email Mr. Smith, explain your situation to him, and invite him to join this Smith Official All Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/smiths/about and the G-Uncategorized&Root Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/g-uncategorized/about if he has not already joined them. I don't know if he is on here already, but being that he is a GD of 2 at 67 Y-DNA STRs is not a coincidence. If he has joined or does join, all 4 of you men should be grouped under the same subgroup because of how closely you match. My final piece of advice to you, in this reply, is this: If I were in your situation, this is exactly what I would do: One of you (i. e., either you, your uncle, or your 1st cousin) should take the Big Y-700 test (wait for a sale). This test will give you about 700 Y-DNA STRs and give you all of your Y-DNA SNPs from Y-DNA Adam to G-M201 (about 46000 BC/BCE) to the present (the year you were born). Some of your SNPs will be unknown/private, but when other men test who match your unknown/private SNPs, they will receive a name, and you and those men will move closer to the present on the Y-DNA SNP Haplotree. No one who is closer to you than a Y-DNA 4th cousin should take the Big Y-700, because neither one of you will learn anything new from the additional test. You should ask Mr. Smith to take the Big Y-700 test. In some cases, you will have to come to an agreement with a match, such as agreeing to pay 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 100% of their test, because you want to know their results. In some cases, even when you offer to pay 100%, they may still refuse to take the test. Some people just aren't interested. This is only my advice. Maybe the Admins on the haplogroup G project will give you different advice. Whatever you choose, M, good luck to you on your genetic genealogy journey and future discoveries!
John Smith John Smith
Yesterday at 6:52am
Hello, I'm Brad Porter. I'm managing kit #905100 for my cousin John Smith. Our common ancestor was John Thomas Smith b. 1838 d. 1886 in SC. This is my mother's family, and John is a direct male descendant. We are trying to find the father of Thomas Smith, and I assumed a Y DNA test would help. It has not. There was not a Smith on the two page list of matches. His two closest matches were -1 genetic distance at 67 markers. One is Murtishaw, and one is Wood. I believe, though, that Thomas was born a Smith, and the NPE was at least a generation or two beyond him. I could be wrong, but this is my current opinion. The trouble is that all this occurs at that horizon event of the 1850 census, before which good information is hard to come by without property and wills.
Douglas Smith
11 hours ago
Brad, Based on everything you wrote in your post above, you did the right thing by having your cousin John Smith tested. I am in the minority of people who believe that no DNA test is ever a waste of money, even if you don't have all of the answers you want right now. So, John has not only 1, but 2 -- 2 matches who are a GD of 1 at 67 Y-DNA STRs? That is amazing! Like I recently told M Peterson: I don't even have any matches that close! When it comes to a known or suspected NPE, the best thing to do is to have John take the Big Y-700 test (wait for a sale). Also, at least one of John's closest Y-DNA STRs matches should take the Big Y-700 test. This test will give John about 700 Y-DNA STRs and give him all of his Y-DNA SNPs from Y-DNA Adam to the year he was born. Some of his SNPs will be unknown/private, but when another man tests who matches him on one or more of them, they will receive a name, and John and that man will move closer to the present on the Y-DNA SNP Haplotree. Another good test for known or suspected NPEs is an atDNA test (FTDNA's Family Finder test). If you see people who look out of place, or you have no idea who they are, it could be a clue. You should take this test, too, and compare your matches with John's. Thank you for including John's kit number! I found him on the bottom of page 6 of the DNA Results in the Ungrouped section. I see he has tested to 67 Y-DNA STRs and his current terminal Y-DNA SNP, R-M269, is listed in red, which means he hasn't done any Y-DNA SNP testing (when he does, it will be listed in green). I am, also, under R1b-M269. If you have not already done so, please join John to the main haplogroup project for all men who are R1b: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/about The Project Administrators, Project Co-Administrators, and knowledgeable Project Members will be able to answer all of your deep questions about R1b, give you advice, and help you to join John to additional projects, for which he will qualify, if you have him take Y-DNA SNP tests. Also, please take a look at John's R1b Y-DNA on the very interesting website, Eupedia: https://eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml Good luck, Brad, on finding out more about John's Y-DNA ancestor's NPE, real surname, and heritage/country of origin!
John Smith
2 hours ago
Thank you, Douglas. Do you prefer Doug? Actually BOTH of John's closest matches have had the Big-Y 700 done already. Their terminal SNP is BY17152. These two families have been in contact already, and seem to believe the connection is on the other side of the pond, in England. Both lines are only traceable for 2 (Murtishaw) to 3 (Wood) generations beyond my ancestor. I have already joined the main R-1b project, and plan to have John's autosomal test run here. I was hoping not to have to, but looks like I should. I'm actually quite familiar with R-1b, and the Eupedia site as well. I'm I2a Isles D Cousin myself (Y-12072), but the Indo Europeans are fascinating to me. I follow Razib Kahn, and read his blog regularly. He posts about them fairly often. Than you for taking the time to post this response.
Frank Hodge Frank Hodge
May 19 @ 8:24am
First, this will take SCIENCE to find TRUTH.... the old ways of genealogy paper trail is misleading in this case. Last names mean little, my family lived in isolation and possible hiding, the census records, birth certificates, death certificates all have questions accuracy dates?, most do not know their mother names?, but know their fathers name,. It appears they had multiple wives, lots dna inbreeding, Benjamin Franklin Hodge lived in isolation, in the middle of no where,(Poplar Bluff Missouri) and the newspaper will start tracking him for over 10 years? Once Ben Hodge dies at 120 years, his death notice will appear(sometimes on front page) of numerous American newspapers. Sincerely, Please understand our family wants to know our family history like everyone else... My grandmother Sarah Ethel Hodge (Wheeling) lived modestly and was very religious J. witness. When Ben Hodge died in 1933, and later his son Franklin Hodge (my grandfather) 1948 d. Poplar Bluff, Mo, my father (12 years old/sixth grade education) will leave home / or be sent away and join his 2 older brothers on west coast picking fruit and vegetables. I do not believe they knew, what the dna science implies so far.... my sister and I started this genealogy journey innocently looking for my family history.... this will not be solved old fashion genealogy records of census, birth, death certificates etc....I believe.. These families lived in fear, some of them live very very long lives... long life would be thought of gift... but in old times, if your family keeps living long life, people start to become suspicious, how do they do it, what is the secret, leading to some people suggesting witchcraft or other foolishness.... We know today it is in my families DNA....some of them live extraordinarily long lives.... please do not judge or pick apart the nature of my message, but it is the truth as my family knows so far.....We did not look for conspiracies... but as my family story is unfolding all the dots I found imply a picture that is unbelievable, even to us.....
Frank Hodge Frank Hodge
May 18 @ 10:00pm
Knights Templar. October 13 , 1307 and then research the year starting June 27, 1844 Joseph Smith d. 1844 and William, Stephen, Arvine, and Amos Hodge d. Later Aris, Catherine and Joseph Hodge...d. .then My great grandfather Benjamin Franklin Hodge will appear in Poplar Bluff, Missouri. My Uncle Frank mtDNA came back K1a1b2b and haplogroup origin combinations of SEPHARDIC and ASHKANAZI Jewish origins? Also, Our family found in Nauvoo, Illinois (also Carthage and Springfield, Ill) when Joseph Smith(the Prophet) died, within a short period of time William Hodge, Stephen Hodge, Arvine Irvine Hodge, and Amos Hodge all were killed? and appears other John Hodge(Grand Master/Scottish rite) dies suddenly after dinner, followed by wife in Lockport, New York, and newspaper story states John Hodge /Millionaire illegal immigrant no records or heirs? Also Aris Hodge(Hoge) , his with Catherine Hodge and son Joseph Hodge die and probate records dates(last two date digits) in Springfield, Illinois, appear altered on Aris Hodge(two probate record documents) and wife Catherine Hodge,? Our family cannot death certificates on Aris, Catherine, or Joseph Hodge in Springfield Illinois? William Smith(Joseph Smith) brother will take out newspaper articles describing Hodge family killings and a conversation his brother told him of Royal blood lineage, joining two houses of David? William Smith writes numerous articles and stories concerning Hodge family killings and Brigham Young? Also my great grandfather Benjamin Franklin Hodge (recorded 120 years 9 months) will show ip in Poplar Bluff Missouri and if you go genealogy bank and search Uncle Ben or Ben Hodge, numerous newspaper articles seem to be tracking his age and health/ over years? Our family finds odd? One article calls Ben Hodge a "KEYSTONE" heir? We do know Archibald Hodge started Newspaper in North Carolina and one oldest Freemason lodge....in Carolinas, maybe Newspaper was used track or communicate info? Our family were religious/ simple people and We only knew my Hodge famiky in Poplar Bluff Missouri/ My grandmother Sarah Hodge (Wheeling) married Benjamin Franklin Hodge son(Franklin) and we knew her as redhair /strict J. Witness... My family started DNA to find where we came from... We are told we probably are not even a Hodge .... Uncle Frank mtDNA know says we came from a Sephardic/Ashkanzi jewish line? Hopefully, the Big Y 700 will help resolve were Our family is from?.... Uncle Frank is 95 years old.... time is running out....
Frank Hodge Frank Hodge
May 18 @ 9:46pm
Frank Hodge Frank Hodge
May 18 @ 9:46pm
Frank Hodge Frank Hodge
May 18 @ 9:45pm
I do understand any questions and /or confusion. My Uncle Frank Eldon(middle name) Hodge is 95 years old. Frank Hodge mtdna reported by 23 and me is K1a1b2. IThe haplogroup for Mary Magdalen is found internet based on the Saint-Maximin-la-Sainte-Baume basilica from her hair. I only mention this because our family, like you did not even know this information for Mary Magdalen was available and we do not know if it is true either.. But the interesting part is the Mtdna happen to be similiar to my grandmother Sara Wheeling Hodge, considering all the strange facts about my family. My great Grand Father Benjamin Franklin Hodge died in Poplar Bluff Missouri, recorded at 120 years and 9 months. It is on his tomb stone and death records. My sister was doing a paper trail and the birth and date she placed by her, but it is based on nothing verifiable.. We do not know how old he was, no one knows. If you go to genealogy bank and type in Uncle Ben or Ben Hodge etc over 100 articles will document his aging and health, over decades...on October 3, 1933 Ben Hodge death notice will appear in numerous newspaper in America, even written in French..in the French/ Jewish Newspaper Justice de Biddeford , ME...which seems very odd to follow an old man in a log cabin, in middle no where. Please keep an open mind, I find this very out of place. When you run Uncle Frank Eldon ( middle name) paternal dna , it seems to St Clair's (l193,) ZS4578, BY11594, and one gentlemen Gram in Denmark(FGC11986). When we look at these matches our family sees matches in Europe to St Clairs /Joseph SMITH//Jones/ Maxwell Wheeler and Gram There is a John Hodge in Lockport, New York, Grand Master of FreeMasons. My family researched FreeMasons and family Hodge name google book searches connect the two? My family knows nothing of Freemasons or any relatives on Hodge side, except my family in Poplar Bluff, Missouri. This all seems unbelievable to us. My sister, her family, my Uncle Frank, and myself did 23 and me first. 23 and me gave us the paternal and maternal haplogroups. Also, 23 and me allows people look ar chromosomes and compare, I noticed there is a strange duplication Chromosome 7 mostly and some others duplicating chromosome 7 exact for Uncle Frank, my Sister Barb, my sister daughter and son, my sister grand daughter, and myself. We find that very odd. So many imprinted genes, across generations .. What I am telling is true, my family just needs to see who in Scotland we are connected, that is why I ordered big Y 700. If the facts seem confusing, I will try to help. But all of this is confusing to us.... Please understand, we are trying to know where are family came from...... but then all these strange facts started to show up... No mothers listed on death certificates? etc.. We just want to know does the Hodge family DNA fit in Scotland.....
Dickinson Smith Dickinson Smith
March 22 @ 9:38am
Grandpa, who was abandoned by his dad when he was an infant, used to end a story about his dad with "and we think his name is Smith". Well just discovered Grandpa had an NPE and the birth father's surname is Downer. Should I stay in this group? Until that discovery I was a 4th generation Smith. Kit # B64290.
2 Comments
Dickinson Smith
May 6 @ 1:43pm
My Grandpa Smith had one son, my dad. Dad had two sons. My brother only has daughters. I have two sons who only have daughters. Thus ends the Smith dynasty. As long as it's no bother, I'll remain.
Douglas Smith
May 8 @ 10:00pm
Dickinson, I was getting ready to reply to your question at the end of March, but some family issues came up that have kept me busy. I am first logging in tonight. Yes, you should stay in this project, even with your newly discovered NPE. You should join every project at FTDNA for which you qualify or that applies to you. Like David Davisson wrote above, you never know when your test results will be able to help someone else's research. Congratulations on finding the information that revealed to you your Y-DNA great-grandfather's real surname, and good luck connecting with your Downer cousins!
Patricia Boardman
May 11 @ 7:36am
Dickenson, I had the same thing happen in my family. My mother's maiden name is Head but her cousin did a Ydna test and we recently found out we are not Head but Phillips. I considered leaving the Phillips group because of rudeness and feeling like an outcast. A least this Smith group is focused and professional. I hope you discover your lineage. I haven't gotten far with my Smith and Smyth lines but have a lot of male matches.
David Davisson R-S23634
May 18 @ 6:01pm
Dickinson, Have you done a Family Finder test yet? It might help you find Downer relatives.
Patricia Lawrence Patricia Lawrence has a question!
May 3 @ 7:30pm
“ How do I find the group I was put in ”
Craig Smith
May 4 @ 1:33am
When you go to the results the default page size is 500. You need to change that to 4,000. Then simply search for your kit number.
Adam Smith Adam Smith
April 19 @ 12:57pm
Hi I am an American Smith with smith roots out of Lancashire and Greater London, Eng. I have a DNA Test from 23 & Me and one from Ancestory. Is there a way to upload both on Family Tree DNA? I uploaded ancestory already. Also do any of the smiths on here have Haplogroup R-M222? Thank you.
Craig Smith
April 19 @ 4:57pm
The only way to upload both sets of raw data would be to have two separate accounts.
Alan Smith
April 25 @ 2:48am
Where in Greater London Adam?
Adam Smith
May 1 @ 12:32pm
Not sure Alen, is just says Greater London. I am a 6th gen smith in the States from my blood line. I did just get my Y-DNA67 in the mail so maybe it will shed some more light.
Alan Smith
May 2 @ 2:34am
Ah ok, my Smiths from East Ham, Essex but now under borough of Newham, Greater London.
tonja Knotts Hamrick tonja Knotts Hamrick has a question!
April 29 @ 7:46am
“ Calvin Jackson Smith, 27 AUG 1840 • Wythe County, Virginia, USA Death 30 SEP 1916 • Puluski, county, Virginia, US United States J-M172 Halo group Charles Dickens Smith, Smith/ Lapehew, Smith/ Thomas, Smith/ Rogers ANYONE HAVE THIS HApLO GROUP? Thanks ”
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