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Payne

  • 640 members

About us

Every FTDNA participant in our project is provided with a web site that is set up and maintained for them by FTDNA. A public Y Results chart is also available from this page by simply clicking on the Y Results tab. The pages on the participants personal web site (that every particpant gets) contains details regarding their test results, their matches and how to contact their matches. Most of our participants are subscribers to the PAYNE mailing lists at http://www.rootsweb.com and may be contacted through that means as well.

Nothing can replace good old-fashioned genealogical research, so the DNA results are designed to get researchers interested in a particular PAYNE Lineage together so that they can share their research in order to discover their common ancestry. This is unfortunately not being used enough in my opinion. There is virtually nothing happening on the PAYNE mailing lists in the way of sharing research. I have also noticed that genealogy appears to have become nothing more than people surfing the Internet, copying what other people have posted (which is more than likely wrong). So by copying it and using it elsewhere, it is impossible to get rid of all the bad information out there... It's a shame, but can be contributed to all of the new people who become interested in their family genealogy each year and simply not knowing any better. The people who do know better don't always do a very good job to guide these new family genealogists in the sound genealogical practices of ALWAYS providing source citations for the information they make available on the Internet and, when they do, it is more often than not simply a link to someone else's information.

This is all compounded by the desire of serious researchers to share their research with others on the Internet in an effort to join forces to track down the leads and clues we find. But this information is almost ALWAYS corrupted from what it was meant to be into being presented as fact. How many times have I been bitten by that demon!

To make a long story short, you can currently view our results in a chart that was created by me by following the link on this web site, or by clicking on this ling: http://papayne.rootsweb.ancestry.com/dna-project/ PLEASE NOTE: This chart does not contain the results of every participant. The chart has not been updated since September 15, 2007. However, there has been no new results that, too my knowledge, would add anything new to report on the lineages that are already defined by the chart. Since those participants are provided ample information by FTDNA regarding their results, as well as abundant help available on the Payne mailing lists at http://www.rootsweb.com, I have elected to stop updating the chart at the link above.

However, FTDNA DOES produce a results chart that contains ALL of our results. Their results chart can be found by clicking on the link in the menu bar at the top of this page. The Lineages defined on both charts are the same. Therefore, a quick look at both charts will provide you with the results of both sets of test results. The Relative Genetics participants on the combined chart I maintained can be easily identified on the chart by the format of the Kit #, which in their case is "945" followed by a letter ("A", "B", "C", etc.). When you identify a PAYNE family on the chart with one of these Kit #'s, you will see that they are grouped with a Lineage, which is identified by the tab (eg. "Lineage 1"). Where available, you can click on the Kit #'s to get information on the ancestry of that participant, going back to their earliest known ancestor (thanks to Joe Payne). Also where available, you can click on the surname next to the Kit #'s to send an e-mail to that participant. I encourage using these two resources heavily so that we can get researchers together helping each other so that they can share their research with others in the lineage so we can find their common ancestry.

Every participant within a lineage is genetically and genealogically related in some way. As stated in the section titled "Project Goals," our hope is to ultimately discover how each member of lineage is related by discovering the details about their common ancestor and how all members of the lineage are tied together, even with sub-lineages that have been defined within some of our lineages, such as Lineage 1.


The project results have revealed a wealth of useful information and continues to do so as more Paynes are tested. We now know, for example, that some of the Payne lines, that we previously thought to be unrelated, in fact were. Most prominent among these is the knowledge that one of our earliest Maryland lines was very closely related to one of the Virginia lines of the same period (mid 17th-c.). The project has also helped many of our participants determine which line they ultimately belong to and they are now able to persue their research efforts with more clarity and confidence. The results have also revealed some surprises which have raised some questions for us as well. Further DNA testing and genealogical research, using our results as a guide, will help us to answer remaining questions.

The problem of combining the results is not a matter of compatibility. Relative Genetics and FTDNA both test the same markers on the Y-Chromosome (all but two markers are the same I believe). In any case, the problem has been the requirement to maintain a separate results chart. This is due to the fact that neither of the reports generated by either lab contain the results from the other. They must be manually added and regularly updated, repeating the same process of combining the two charts, every time new results come in. It is a task that I have increasingly neglected to perform as the years rolled by.

How the groups are assigned:

Although most of the haplogroups in this project are descendants of known haplogroups, sometimes we have members that test positive for a certain haplogroup, but don't necessarily match closely with the others assigned to that specific haplogroup. Therefore, we may label their sub-group as "Unmatched".

As you scroll through the different assigned groups, they will be labeled as (G1a) starting with the first. This means that it is "Group 1" and the a is in place to determine sub-groups. With our biggest haplogroup R-M269, you'll see that it is (G6a) and with each sub-group, you'll have a different letter, all the way down to 'v'. 

After the haplogroup assignment, you'll see for the header of each group that that I listed the terminal SNP for that haplogroup. SNP's are Single Neucleotide Polymorphism's. They are a bit more definitive describing your particular lineages migrations and even health risks. The SNP changes much more frequent than standard STR results. Where as STR results are how the FamilyTreeDNA's members are grouped, are by their STR results from Y-DNA tests. So, the heading's SNP at the beginning of some groups show their 'downstream SNP' which means that others in the group may test positive for different SNP's along that same line. If the title of the group does not have a SNP, then most of the time there will be a Most Recent Common Ancestor that others in the group descend from.