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K mtDNA Haplogroup

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Are you a member of the K mtDNA Haplogroup project?
July 29 @ 1:46pm
I just receive my results. Imy haplogroup is K1c2. I understand nothing about that. I see that my matches have Englishsounding surnames and my family is French for at least 5 centuries. However, according to Geneanet, i have John the first PLANTAGENET (without field) as ancestor. Somebody could help me understanding that ?
Mikhail Vorogushin
July 31 @ 4:19am
Спасибо Джеймс!!))
Rob Jacobson
July 31 @ 8:06am
I cannot add anything to what James has said, he is our favorite source of origin information. However, I do suggest viewing the YFull tree for K1c1 - . YFull has been busy adding branches, 6 new branches to K1c1, 8 new branches to K1c1b, and 2 new branches to K1c1h. They are not official, but interesting anyway. Check your extra mutations against the ones listed for each branch. Edit: Oops, I forgot James already mentioned YFull and K1c1. My article does have some general information about mtDNA and K1 and K1c that might be helpful.
July 31 @ 3:38pm
Si je comprend bien, tous les halogroup (Mt-DNA) ont la même ancêtre commun. If i understand well, All the mt-DNA halogroup have tha same maternal line ancestor
James Honeychuck
July 31 @ 11:51pm
Aussi tous le membres de la même haplogroup.
Jody Gorran Jody Gorran has a question!
July 26 @ 10:48am
A curious question: I understand that surnames mean very little when interpreting mtDNA matches because we are referring to mothers and the matrilineal line. I have read and have been told that mtDNA matches seem generally to trace back 1000s of years, well beyond recorded history in most cases. However, what I am going to relate may simply be coincidental and nothing more. I’ve always had an interest in finding evidence that might show a familial connection to Spain as I am Jewish and considered Ashkenazi and have a close Y match whose family may have left Spain after the expulsion. I have had extensive DNA testing with Family Tree DNA beginning in 2007. I have never paid much attention to my mtDNA haplogroup which is K1a4a until very recently when I noticed that of my 44 matches, 12 or slightly more than 25% seemed to have Spanish sounding surnames. What a coincidence. They include Reyes Cairo, Moncayo, Gonzalez, Silva, Cardozo, Ricardo, Ramos, Benator, Pavellas, Hinojosa, Gonzales, Avila. I wrote to them and received responses from several who actually said they had a Spanish connection. Obviously, those connections could have nothing to do with the mother’s side. So my question is, while not quantifiable, given such a “coincidence” of Spanish sounding surnames, could “birds of a feather flock together” and perhaps the haplogroup K1a4a might actually exhibit a matrilineal line with Spanish connections? Thank you for any thoughts.
James Honeychuck
July 26 @ 11:46am
There may be a list of Sephardic surnames somewhere. But what percentage of Sephardic do you have at ?
Jody Gorran
July 27 @ 4:18pm
I have NO percentage of Sephardic. I'm like 97% Askenazic. So how does one explain how more than 25% of my mtDNA haplogroup have Spanish sounding surnames. No one seems to want to address this question.
Rob Jacobson
July 27 @ 6:41pm
It's an interesting observation, and does sound like more than a coincidence. The actual surnames mean nothing of course, but obviously Spanish women have Spanish husbands in Spain, with Spanish surnames, which is an indication of a Spanish cluster. I see no special emphasis on Spain being reported for K1a4a1b2, in either FTDNA or YFull, but you may have an extra mutation or 2 (therefore a branch or 2 farther down) that is associated with a lineage that clusters in southwest Europe. In general, the farther you walk down the tree branches, the tighter the geographical region. As I mentioned before, those with K1a4a are widely spread across all of Europe and Eurasia, from Scandinavia to North Africa, from Spain to Turkey and Russia. One reminder - K1a4 branches are not normally associated with Ashkenazi ethnicity. I would stick to autosomal testing for detecting that.
Doron Burshtain
July 28 @ 11:50am
My-Origin is mainly population-oriented estimation, i.e. based on algorithm which derived out of samples taken from living people at the time of taking. Means, that this estimation is based on the closest population available. This means that since most of your closest relatives are or have lived in Europe in the recent 200-300 years, that is what this estimation is going to show. Not surprisingly, since it is algorithm and taken DNA, you will find different estimations from different companies. For example, in FTDNA I am approx. 98% Ashkenazi, and ~2% West Asian. (200-300years estimation). In 23&ME it was mainly Ashkenazi, but also 0.4% Iberian- still based on the same 200-300 years. Just a note, One of my grandmothers has pure Sephardic surname. In which is based on another algorithm it shows 91% Ashkenazi, 2.1 Iberian, 5.1% Northwest Africa (and some also from east Africa), and 1.7% West Asian. DNA.Land is based on different algorithm which is more current DNA oriented. i.e. this goes back in some cases to 400-500 years ago. So, I took the same files (from FTDNA) to another service for testing, “Gene2Me” via Sequencing. Their service is based on a very large scale and different algorithm which is truly based on a pure by location DNA. i.e to whom and how much my DNA is related. So, the results are “surprising”: with 16% Ashkenazi west Asian oriented, and additional 54% pure middle east (i.e. total of 70% middle east including all countries in the middle east), ~13% Italian, ~8% Iberian, and ~8% Balkan. This algorithm is precise and actually gives the evidence and impact of 1000’s of years.
Jody Gorran Jody Gorran has a question!
July 23 @ 1:04pm
I have always concentrated my efforts on Y DNA since joining FTDNA in 2007. That changed yesterday when I received some surprising responses from several of my 44 mtDNA matches for K1a4a. So now I need to get up to speed. Can someone explain the significance of the haplogroup K1a4a1b2 VA? What do the extra letters and characters represent? Is it a subgroup? Are they part of my 44 K1a4a matches? Do I have a subgroup that I haven't noticed?
Jody Gorran
July 23 @ 5:13pm
Thanks for the feedback. I kind of preferred that all 44 matches within mtDNA K1a4a had a common ancestor without now having to deal with mutations and subgroups. Perhaps it will eventually make sense to me.
Jody Gorran
July 23 @ 7:09pm
Another question: If a person has an extensive family tree that traces back in time hundreds of years directly from his mother, would another person, who has the same haplogroup such as mtDNA K1a4a, legitimately be able to claim those same ancestral DNA relationships to those same ancestors of the other person?
Rob Jacobson
July 25 @ 3:57pm
Jody, I'm not sure you are appreciating the immense timescales for mtDNA mutations. You're used to yDNA, where a mutation reported by the Big Y700 test corresponds to an average of 83 years, about 2.5 to 3 generations. A mitochondrial mutation corresponds to an average of about 2000 years! Yes, those 44 matches do all have a single common female ancestor, but she probably lived thousands of years ago. If you are K1a4a1b2, your common ancestor is estimated by YFull to be about 3600 years ago (roughly 1700 to 6800 years ago according to the latest YFull dating). YFull currently estimates K1a4a to be something like 9000 to 17000 years old, which is far older than known recorded history, has passed through many populations that have disappeared. Those with K1a4a are widely spread across all of Europe, Eurasia, and North Africa, and includes many different nationalities and languages. There are probably hundreds, maybe thousands of current lineages who are all K1a4a, and perhaps tens of thousands of K1a4a people. As we have said before, mtDNA is fun and really interesting, but rarely ever helpful for genealogy. I hate to put it so grimly, but we have to be realistic. Tracing back several hundred years is a paltry amount of time in mtDNA, since a single GD of difference can represent on average 1000 to 3000 years. I hope I didn't totally discourage you! :)
Pamela Hamilton Gann
July 26 @ 7:57pm
Rob, thanks for your clarification. I dont believe anyone should get discouraged when clear and concise explanations are presented.
Andrea Dorfner Andrea Dorfner has a question!
July 25 @ 5:42pm
I recently received my results of my mtDNA, and I am grouped as K1a1b1a. Will this help in my research for ancestors, or are the links just too many generations away? Thanks...from a newbie!
James Honeychuck
July 26 @ 2:57am
I'm afraid your type is too numerous to be of much use in the search for ancestors. As an academic paper put it, "K1a1b1a ... accounts for 63% of Ashkenazi K lineages (or about 20% of total Ashkenazi lineages)..."
Andrea Dorfner
July 26 @ 7:29pm
Thank you, James.
Jody Gorran Jody Gorran has a question!
July 23 @ 10:08pm
Another question: If a person has an extensive family tree that traces back in time hundreds of years directly from his mother, would another person, who has the same haplogroup such as mtDNA K1a4a, legitimately be able to claim those same ancestral DNA relationships to those same ancestors of the other person?
Fay Martin
July 24 @ 1:19am
No. Mitochondrial DNA goes back too far. The estimated time to the most recent common ancestor for K1a4a is 7500 years ago according to Y-full. Nobody has a tree that deep. The best you can hope for is that by examining trees with a close genetic distance to you, maybe you can follow sister lines down to your tree. However, trees hundreds of years old on the maternal line tend to have mistakes from my experience, so be cautious.
James Honeychuck
July 24 @ 2:53am
If both persons took the full mtDNA test and both were just K1a4a, not in a further branch, and were perfect matches to each other on HVR1, HVR2, and the Coding Region, then they might be recently related.
Denita Weaver Denita Weaver
July 22 @ 12:44pm
I have 6 exact matches to this group and a handful of others (mtdna-k1b1a). Hoping to chip away at my brick wall. Soon to be processed-- maternal uncle's Big-Y. Last known male, William T. Price b about 1820 Tallapoosa, AL. Violet Paralee West is last known female b 1860 in MT Ida, Arkansas and died at 32. Both are maternal side.
Kendall Sholtess Kendall Sholtess
July 16 @ 10:31pm
HI! I took the MtDNA test a few months ago and ended up with a result of K1c1. Now, for some reason it doesn't indicate K1c1a or b or c, or other. How do I find that out? Thanks in advance!
James Honeychuck
July 19 @ 2:43am
C5003T puts you in the branch K1c1K tentatively identified by another research effort. Besides the Danish case, JQ702148.1 is from England.
Rob Jacobson
July 20 @ 5:05pm
Those 4 are actually 3 mutations - an insertion of a C after 315, an insertion of an AC after 522, and a change at 5003. The first 2 are very common in those of us with K1c haplogroups, and occurred earlier than the last of the K1c mutations, so won't actually be useful as extra mutations. Most samples with K haplogroups have 315.1C, and quite a few with K1 haplogroups have CA insertions in the 510/520's. FTDNA considers them too volatile for haplogroup assignment, so they ignore them, causing them to end up in your extra mutations, wrongly I think. Your C5003T is certainly an extra mutation (puts you in K1c1k as Jim said), and it's rather rare. MITOMAP has only 3 occurrences, the 2 that are already in YFull's K1c1k plus one with a C haplogroup, a random extra mutation for the C person. MITOMAP does not have any health issues reported for C5003T, but then with only 3 occurrences, it's too soon to know for sure. (Sadly, MITOMAP has significantly changed their web site, so I'll need to revise my MITOMAP instructions.) If you're interested, there's a series of posts around here about the YFull numbering, that I wrote trying to understand the 310/315, 513/522/523, etc problem. The posts are rather confusing, and I hope to rewrite about it in my K1c2 article, something much more concise. Those insertions are like yDNA STR's.
Kendall Sholtess
July 20 @ 9:08pm
Thanks for the information, guys! I seem to have inherited rare mutation in both MtDNA and YDNA (EZ21371). That's interesting. But I don't understand some of what you all said. I need to study up more on mutations. I can't fully interpret the results from FTDNA charts.
James Honeychuck
July 21 @ 2:01am
That's because what I told you is not from FTDNA's results. C5003T puts you in the branch K1c1k tentatively identified by another research effort.
Adammm Yeznasni Adammm Yeznasni
July 11 @ 12:04pm
Hello all, I'm tested positive for k1a4a1k and I was wondering if there are more people from North Africa here positive for this branch? I got tested through Yfull and not through FTDNA.
Rob Jacobson
July 18 @ 8:09am
I think you're in a population that hasn't tested very much yet. You may have to wait until DNA testing becomes more popular there. K1a4a1 is widespread across all of Europe and North Africa, and several thousand years old, with numerous branches including yours.
Elizabeth Ely Elizabeth Ely
June 17 @ 6:18pm
Hello. I’m so glad to have found this group project to learn more about my haplogroup K1C1. I also am interested in any Jewish ancestors. Other groups that explore ethnicities do not find that except for MyHeritage, which says I’m 2.6% Ashkenazi. Why is that? I’m assuming it’s that some testing is more exact than others and that we’re still learning. Thanks for any help! Be well!
Elizabeth Ely
July 6 @ 10:14am
Amelie: could we do a one to one comparison on GEDmatch? I do have ancestors 5 generations back on many of my lines to look at. I don’t understand what you mean when you said: “ You could try gedmatch for autosomal % in other databases, but maybe you already tried that.” I’m still learning about all this. Thanks for any help you can give!
Amelie de Haan
July 13 @ 1:16am
Gedmatch is a different site to check autosomal dna, they have a few additional databases, which allows you to take an average and see what is most likely. Sometimes you can find closer cousins there that might have done a test on a different site. For example, I don't get Ashkenazi, but I do get West-Asian/Levantine. In my family that comes from multiple places (mother's mother's etc, but also mother's paternal side). Does your HVR1/HVR2 also include Jewish matches? I don't think our dna is close enough to match on Gedmatch.
Joe McCulloch GM T165455
July 13 @ 9:03am
Elizabeth Ely I have Ely's in my tree, maternal side. GedMATCH T165455
Kendall Sholtess
July 16 @ 10:45pm
Hi! I am K1c1 as well. Nice to meet you. Unfortunately the line ends with me. My sister likely passed it on, though. My earliest maternal ancestor was Maria Kliewer, who lived in Poland.
Ashraf Taqatqa Ashraf Taqatqa
July 15 @ 12:37am
Hello, may I ask why I have no matches in the "Coding regions" while in HVR1, HVR2 I have many of them? Thanks :)
July 15 @ 4:06am
Hi, you seem to be the opposite to me.I have "HVR1, HVR2, CODING REGIONS - 552 MATCHES"; HVR1, HVR2 - 0 MATCHES etc regards Geoff #402203
Rob Jacobson
July 15 @ 5:40pm
Ashraf, when people refer to matches in the HVR1 region, they're referring to comparisons of about 570 locations, which isn't too hard to match on. When they refer to matches on the HVR2 region, tests of it are generally always tests of both the HVR1 and HVR2 region, therefore comparisons of both, about 1140 locations, which is somewhat harder to match on than just the HVR1 region. When they refer to tests of the Coding Region, they always are referring to tests of the entire mitochondrial DNA ring, about 16569 locations, and includes both of the HVR regions plus the Coding Region. That is the most comprehensive comparison, and the hardest to match anyone else. If you don't have matches when the Coding Region is included, then you probably have mutations that correspond to an mtDNA haplogroup associated with a population with very few or no other testers yet. You're going to have to wait for them. Patience! :)
Ashraf Taqatqa
July 16 @ 1:41pm
Thank you Rob :)