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Minnis Results: Test results are known for twelve applicants; the administrator from the John Minnis branch of North Carolina, his second cousin two times removed, another suspected cousin from James Minnis of South Carolina, two from the John Minnis branch of Ireland, one from the James Minnis branch of Scotland, and a MINISH, all from the USA; one from New Zealand who matches a known descendant of Daid Minnis of Ulster, and three from England, all with an Ulster background. Minish did not match but the first two had an 11/12 marker match. The suspected cousin does not match. The New Zealander exhibits no connection. The three from England at 12 markers are very probable matches and show a connection with the administrator and his cousin. The John Minnis of Ireland descendant has a 25/25 marker match with the latest applicant; paper trail shows them to be 4th cousins 1 time removed. Their MCRA is Thomas Minnis, 1791 TN-1863 MO, grandson of Samuel Minnis b. abt 1725 County Down, IRE. This compares with a 34/37 marker match with the Scottish descendant and the latest applicant 24/25. There is a great probability that the three have a common ancestor in the last 600 years. The question remains as to where in the United Kingdom this ancestor lived. It may be Ireland but more likely is England or the border counties.
Menzies Lineage Notes:
The Menzies Norman line is paternally extinct due to debt (with Durian Scheme losses and some predatory wadsetting by neighbors in some cases); dismantling of clan cultural unity with the loss of the Gaelic fosterage system (In Loco Paternis) due to the Statuates of Iona in 1609; throwing in alliances with Jacobites, or simply lacking a male heir to pass on the cadet line, most likely tied to debt and the failure to pivot to revenue generation of the Industrial Revolution while trying to keep up with resource barons who dominated this new era. Even DP Menzies, author of the Red and White Book of Menzies, was acutely aware behind the scenes of the sinking financial ship of the clan when he released his book and used his book and business success as leverage to try and rescue the clan, albeit through manipulative, power hungry, bias and ultimately unsuccessful means.
Menzies Lineage Notes:
The Menzies Norman line is paternally extinct due to debt (with Durian Scheme losses and some predatory wadsetting by neighbors in some cases); dismantling of clan cultural unity with the loss of the Gaelic fosterage system (In Loco Paternis) due to the Statuates of Iona in 1609; throwing in alliances with Jacobites, or simply lacking a male heir to pass on the cadet line, most likely tied to debt and the failure to pivot to revenue generation of the Industrial Revolution while trying to keep up with resource barons who dominated this new era. Even DP Menzies, author of the Red and White Book of Menzies, was acutely aware behind the scenes of the sinking financial ship of the clan when he released his book and used his book and business success as leverage to try and rescue the clan, albeit through manipulative, power hungry, bias and ultimately unsuccessful means.
To be fair, this mal adaptation, which trickled from the 1600’s, affected all Scottish clans and killed many of them with far greater efficiency than other causes often cited in popular narratives like Culloden.
The only cadet branch that escaped total collapse was the Culdares line, thanks to a Deed of Entail from 1697 which protected assets from being leveraged to pay off debt. When the last male of that paternal line died, assets went to the Stuarts of Cardney, who were related through a marriage in the 1730’s. That was the line that petitioned and won the right to be the new clan chief in the 1950’s, provided they change their surname to Menzies.
Lineage 1/ R1B/
Lineage 2/ E-MZ62/ Confirmed Menzies genetic family: ancient line composed of eleven paper trail family trees that share a common ancestor estimated after 1400, meaning that they have been Menzies at least that long. Tenant farmers most likely living in the Glen Quaich and Amulree areas in the southern ends of the Menzies estates.
Lineage 2/ E-MZ62/ Confirmed Menzies genetic family: ancient line composed of eleven paper trail family trees that share a common ancestor estimated after 1400, meaning that they have been Menzies at least that long. Tenant farmers most likely living in the Glen Quaich and Amulree areas in the southern ends of the Menzies estates.
E-A930 marker upstream from MZ62 doesn’t connect again with anyone until 250 BC. It’s definitely the only E-A930 marker anywhere in that part of Scotland. E-A930 can be found in later Roman encampment areas in places like Dumfriesshire and further south.
One line from these tenant farmers drifted to Down County in Ireland, most likely with the Plantation movement and became recorded “Minnis” from the phonetic sound of “Mingus.”
Lineage 3/ R1A-YP327/ Confirmed Menzies genetic family: Gael Norse in origins. Came to Scotland around 800 AD. Same R1A lineage that became the Donald’s and Doughalls. Includes four Menzies paper trees.
Lineage 4/ R-BY186274/ Confirmed Menzies genetic family: Strathclyde Menzies. Artisan, farmers and miners who lived in the Southern Uplands corridors near Enoch in places like Lanark, Douglas, Thornhill, Leadhills, Sanquahar. Came to dominate the Southwest as far as Greenock in Renfrewshire and even into the Kintyre peninsula. Composed of nine family tree branches separated by a common ancestor estimated to have lived 1500 AD. Had been in Scotland’s southwest estimated for the last 800 years. These Menzies were part of the original tenants of the lands at Enoch castle when it became a free barony in 1510. Some of them were known Covanenters. Most likely the men drifted from Enoch area for economic opportunity, which included mining.
Lineage 3/ R1A-YP327/ Confirmed Menzies genetic family: Gael Norse in origins. Came to Scotland around 800 AD. Same R1A lineage that became the Donald’s and Doughalls. Includes four Menzies paper trees.
Lineage 4/ R-BY186274/ Confirmed Menzies genetic family: Strathclyde Menzies. Artisan, farmers and miners who lived in the Southern Uplands corridors near Enoch in places like Lanark, Douglas, Thornhill, Leadhills, Sanquahar. Came to dominate the Southwest as far as Greenock in Renfrewshire and even into the Kintyre peninsula. Composed of nine family tree branches separated by a common ancestor estimated to have lived 1500 AD. Had been in Scotland’s southwest estimated for the last 800 years. These Menzies were part of the original tenants of the lands at Enoch castle when it became a free barony in 1510. Some of them were known Covanenters. Most likely the men drifted from Enoch area for economic opportunity, which included mining.
One line of this branch, along with Neighboring pre-surname cousins in the Alexanders, Vance and Weir, migrated with the plantation movement to Ireland. Most of these Menzies, however, remained in Southwest Scotland.
What’s interesting about this lineage is the large “ghost gap” between upstream marker R-FT67652 (1200 CE) and its parent haplogroup at BY188438 (1550 BCE). This would suggest a population localized to an area for a large period, rather than diffusing through vast community networks over a large area over time. Although neither can be definitively proven, two competing theories provide a most-likely scenario for this lineage:
1. Descendants of Romans Auxiliaries around Dumfriesshire whose descendants farmed in the region in an insular community until about 1200 and survived in a bottleneck.
2. Norman or Flemish settlers around King David’s time who bottlenecked separately on the European continent.
The most likely probability is the Roman Auxiliary hypothesis, based on data to guide probabilities.
This line was found around Roman settlements in the Dumfriesshire and Southern Uplands area. Its marker is under U152>L2, which could very easily have migrated in between 1000 BCE forward but is found in low frequency (2-5% in Scotland). This line was assimilated into local populations but did not take over the genetic makeup of the population that was formed in the area. It existed, but never exploded and enveloped an area, because it was never riding the wave of where a Y-DNA line would explode in an area - conquering or replacing by ruling class.
Instead, it was absorbed into local populations on the frontier and lived along a razor’s edge of extinction, endangered, but never gone.
The upstream match with a living tester from Calgari, Sardinia, puts the Roman probability at 85-90% over the Norman/Flemish hypothesis. Both this lineage and the Sardinian one are not native to their lands, but ancient results of the spread of the Roman Empire.
Once again, none of this can be definitively proven, but this is the current most likely probability.
Lineage 5/ I-A19429/ Needs a match to confirm genetic family.
Lineage 6/ R-S22763/ Needs a match to confirm genetic family.
Lineage 7/ R1B/ Confirmed Menzies lineage/ Supposed Comrie Cadet line, although more testing is needed to confirm. Two family tree branches separated by a common ancestor estimated at 1375 AD, which year after the date claimed by DP Menzies in his “Red and White Book of Menzies” as the founding of the Comrie group. DP has made plenty of questionable claims though, so more testing and evidence will be needed to support the Comrie label.
Lineage 5/ I-A19429/ Needs a match to confirm genetic family.
Lineage 6/ R-S22763/ Needs a match to confirm genetic family.
Lineage 7/ R1B/ Confirmed Menzies lineage/ Supposed Comrie Cadet line, although more testing is needed to confirm. Two family tree branches separated by a common ancestor estimated at 1375 AD, which year after the date claimed by DP Menzies in his “Red and White Book of Menzies” as the founding of the Comrie group. DP has made plenty of questionable claims though, so more testing and evidence will be needed to support the Comrie label.