I-M223 Y-DNA Haplogroup

ISOGG Y-DNA Haplogroup I2a1b1 (was I2a2a & earlier I2b1)
  • 4093 members
Are you a member of the I-M223 Y-DNA Haplogroup project?
Pinned Posts
Wayne Rodney Roberts Wayne Rodney Roberts
February 16 @ 7:16pm
There is an updated YFull Y-Tree for our I2-M223 haplogroup branch. It now includes a number of STR markers that define a new sub-branch. It is even more important now for members that did Big Y early last year when FTDNA was withholding the BAM files to now upgrade their VCF file to BAM file at YFull. This upgrade is free. There are 21 members that only have their Big Y VCF file at YFull. You need to upgrade by submitting your Big Y BAM file which contains your Y-500 STR markers and additional SNPs not read by FTDNA. Here is a list of members' YFull ID numbers that need to upgrade by submitting their BAM file. YF11581; YF11755; YF11807; YF11811; YF12135; YF12511; YF12533; YF12682; YF12720; YF12734; YF12760; YF12879; YF12884; YF12905; YF12908; YF13106; YF13115; YF13245; YF13246; YF13335; YF13337. If you are one of these members and need help in generating your BAM file, getting the Share BAM LINK and then uploading the link to your account at YFull, please ask.
Wayne Rodney Roberts
March 9 @ 10:06am
Emails have been now sent to IDs: YF11807; YF12135; YF12533; YF12682; YF12734 (email bounced due to antispam blocker); YF12760; YF12908; YF13106; YF13115; YF13245; YF13246; YF13335; YF13337.
George Anthony
March 10 @ 9:24am
Wayne Rodney Roberts
March 11 @ 6:02pm
I will unpin this in a couple of days. I use the list above as reference in trying to make contact. There are still a few I have to contact that have not joined the I-M223 Group at YFull and I have to work out who they are.
JOHN Belton, Deceased
Yesterday at 8:36am
I am managing my brothers dna. I purchased his test in 2007 and was told his dna woukd be held for 25 years. I did several testing from it (as I could afford) and when I tried to have his full y done, FTDNA told me he didn’t have enough dna. This was in 2009 and he had just died that year so I can never uograde his dna.
Wade Kotter Wade Kotter
4 hours ago
Just FYI, I'm off this morning on a bit of an adventure and will be off line until Monday evening Utah time. Hopefully each of your will discover a new close match between then and now. Perhaps one will show up for me as well. I can dream, at least. :-)
Douglas McDonald Douglas McDonald
4 hours ago
For you fishy people.. Here's a pic of my son Doug. He only kept that one out of the water long enough for the photo to be taken.
Thomas Erbe Thomas Erbe
Yesterday at 7:48pm
Hello all - Y700 done and have just moved from I-Z171 to I-Y141780. Still not quite sure what this means - Danish VIking? Saxon? Or perhaps my great uncle's crazy theory - "Welsh Huguenots that traveled to Thuringia"? In any case, I welcome the groups' collective wisdom.
Wade Kotter
Yesterday at 8:50pm
I'm afraid I-Y141780 is much too old (estimated formation date of around 3000 years ago) to be useful for associating with much later groups such as Saxons or "Danish Vikings": https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y141780/ More testers in your branch are needed to discover branching downstream of I-Y141780. I strongly urge you to generate your BAM file and submit it to YFull. Wayne or Tom may also have some comments in relation to the other members of your group on the project results page.
Wayne Rodney Roberts
21 hours ago
Thomas, I am still to compare your SNP locations with those of Percy/Pate line to see if you form a new branch. I'm away in New Zealand at a conference so will do when I get some time.
Thomas Erbe
11 hours ago
awesome - looking forward to it. and will submit my BAM to yfull when i get a moment.
Earl Chambers Earl Chambers
Yesterday at 5:26pm
3/18/2019 Enhancements Big Y – Matches Page Enhancements The Big Y - Matches page has been enhanced as follows: • The “step chart” and calculations at the top of the page have been replaced with text about the Big Y Block Tree and analyzed variants and the View Big Y Block Tree button, which directs users to the block tree. • The Matches page query has been updated to the same query used for the Big Y Block Tree. With the new query: o The matches page will load faster. o The matches will display in the same order on the Matches page as they do on the block tree.
Bryan Richards
Yesterday at 10:46pm
In the reorg of the Big Y-Matches, I picked up a match on my block tree and matches who isn't even in the I-M223 branch. He is I-S2488 which comes under I-S2525 rather than I-M223 after I-P214. I don't see how that is possible. Has anyone else noticed data oddities since the reorganization of the BigY matches page?
Wade Kotter
Yesterday at 10:18am
No issues with my matches, Bryan.
David Bolding
23 hours ago
No issues with my page either, Bryan. All my matches are where they should be on the block tree. No new matches :-(
Matthew Kelley Matthew Kelley
Gunnar von Arnold
March 16 @ 7:31am
Thank you Matthew, a lot to process but interesting. You have a lot of focus on ancient DNA, I think that is very interesting. The flow of people entering from central Europe during the decline of the Roman Empire in particular.
Wade Kotter
March 16 @ 9:35am
Here's the abstract of the article: "We assembled genome-wide data from 271 ancient Iberians, of whom 176 are from the largely unsampled period after 2000 BCE, thereby providing a high-resolution time transect of the Iberian Peninsula. We document high genetic substructure between northwestern and southeastern hunter-gatherers before the spread of farming. We reveal sporadic contacts between Iberia and North Africa by ~2500 BCE and, by ~2000 BCE, the replacement of 40% of Iberia’s ancestry and nearly 100% of its Y-chromosomes by people with Steppe ancestry. We show that, in the Iron Age, Steppe ancestry had spread not only into Indo-European–speaking regions but also into non-Indo-European–speaking ones, and we reveal that present-day Basques are best described as a typical Iron Age population without the admixture events that later affected the rest of Iberia. Additionally,we document how, beginning at least in the Roman period, the ancestry of the peninsula was transformed by gene flow from North Africa and the eastern Mediterranean." Unfortunately, as far as I can see only one of the samples tested as I2 with no information on where it fits further down the I2 tree. UPDATE: I misread things; several I2 samples are include in their illustrations but no detail is provided. I2 is one of the broad categories common in Copper Age Iberia they claim was basically replaced in the Bronze Age by R-M269, which they trace to the "Pontic-Caspian Steppe." ANOTHER UPDATE: They provide a supplementary table with details for each sample for which they have sufficient y-DNA to make a haplogroup call. The total number of individuals for whom they were able to make a haplogroup call is 226; the number assigned to I2 is 53. It's not clear to me what version of the ISOGG tree they are using so I can't say how many belong to I-M223. I'm assuming that at some time the BAM for new samples reported here will be added to GenBank or some other repository.
Wade Kotter
Yesterday at 9:37pm
Looking at the supplementary table a little further, it appears to me that they are using the older I2a2a designation for the I-M223 branch. If I'm correct, 26 of the samples belong to I-M223 or one of its downstream branches. All of these date to either the Neolithic period or the Chalcolithic, which the authors of the article call the Copper Age. The supplemental data can be downloaded here: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2019/03/13/363.6432.1230.DC1
Joseph Young Joseph Young has a question!
March 12 @ 6:51pm
Wayne/Wade Could take a look at kit 414449 & kit 429259 and see if we are up to date with the new things that are happening. Thank you for helping.
Joseph Young
March 17 @ 9:46am
Wayne Thank you for the input. This will help.
William Hemphill
March 17 @ 10:33am
Wade, Wayne, do you recall if this BAM file been uploaded to YFull? Pat
Wade Kotter
March 18 @ 10:53am
Pat, I don't think Paul Thompson has uploaded his BAM file. I don't see any new samples in the YFull tree for I-BY19893 or its parent branch, I-V1840. It looks like someone needs to contact him. Unfortunately, I can't help with this because I don't have access to his contact information.
William Hemphill
March 18 @ 12:25pm
Thanks Wade. I couldn't find the kit at YFull either and I just wondered if it had been uploaded and was in process. I scrolled down but couldn't find anything. I have emailed the kit owner, but haven't gotten a response. Pat
Wade Kotter Wade Kotter
March 16 @ 11:48am
Earlier this morning I added kit YF18946 to the I-M223 group at YFull. He is at this time assigned to a new branch named I-Y81046 which is one step down from I-Y20888; he is joined in that branch by YF05503: https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y20888/ YF18946 currently has 14 best quality and 4 acceptable quality novel SNPs, most of which are new FT SNPs found by Big Y-700.
Andrew Johnston
March 16 @ 7:06pm
Hey Wade, any chance you can find someone to add to I-Y8830* :), it's getting lonely
Wade Kotter
March 16 @ 11:12pm
If only it were that easy....
Wayne Rodney Roberts
March 17 @ 6:19am
Andrew, there are a couple of Big Y testers that have not sent BAM files to YFull for analysis. You should be able to work these out from matches and groupings and email them suggesting they look into YFull analysis. It is a personal preference if they do or don't.
Wade Kotter
March 18 @ 10:55am
I'm glad it was easier for Wayne (he can see your matches but I can't) and hope that you get a positive response from one or both of these testers.
Brainard Watler Brainard Watler
March 11 @ 5:29pm
Big Y-700 Results delayed yet again this time to 03/25/2019 - 04/08/2019. What's going on? Is there something wrong with the quality of the DNA sample? Originally purchased it in August 2018 and FtDNA waited 4 months to tell me that there was insufficient sample. There are later batches who received their results before the scheduled time.
1 Comment
Brainard Watler
March 13 @ 9:47am
Many thanks, Matthew. The new sample was received by them on 15th January so it has been about 8 weeks. What makes me concerned is that this is the third delay of the scheduled date since then.
Wade Kotter
March 13 @ 10:08am
The date range they give is an estimate, Brainard, not a "scheduled" date. The same test can take a different amount of time for different testers. Eight weeks is less than the current overall estimate of 10-12 weeks. Remember that they had to restart the testing process when they received your new sample. I don't think there is any reason to be concerned, especially given the fact that you're getting Big Y-700 results at no additional cost to the Big Y-500 test you originally purchased. Those of us who originally did Big Y prior to the introduction of Big Y-500 will have to pay to upgrade to Big Y-700, although we did get a free upgrade to Big Y-500. If you're still concerned, contact FTDNA support and ask them for a status report as Matthew suggested.
Matthew Kelley
March 13 @ 8:00pm
I would not be too concerned Brainard. They don't even know yet what the correct estimated time is for this new test though it was expected to be 5 weeks. They did expect the first couple of months to take much longer due to volume and the extra analysis required.
Brainard Watler
March 16 @ 5:59pm
Thanks for your helpful comments, Wade and Matthew. My concern was really that the delays would go on for 3 months and then be told that the quality of DNA sample was not good enough and I would have to start again for the third time.
Lars-Gunnar Florin Lars-Gunnar Florin has a question!
March 15 @ 10:00am
Wayne. Did you get all the information you needed. Anyway Thanks à lot. Lf
Wade Kotter
March 15 @ 10:23am
Lars, I'm not Wayne but it does look like YFull is currently processing your BAM file upgrade.
Wayne Rodney Roberts
March 16 @ 2:08am
Yes Lars. I do need to check with FTDNA as you are missing the 68-111 STR markers from your Big Y-500 results. There is no upgrade button available for Y-DNA to request or order them.
Wade Kotter
March 16 @ 11:22am
Wayne, it looks to me like markers 38-111 are missing for the CSV file Lars uploaded.
Wayne Rodney Roberts
March 16 @ 4:21pm
Ah yes, my mistake. Thanks Wade.
Ryan McCubbin Ryan McCubbin
March 12 @ 5:06pm
What would it take to be able to further subdivide Cont3a1 Group 3b to a more recent TMRCA? Is that possible for I-S10702?
Wayne Rodney Roberts
March 14 @ 4:11am
Hello Ryan, yes, the I-S10702 branch has plenty of possibilities for further sub-branches towards the present. The I-S10702 tree looks like this at present:- I-S10702 …. I-Y6401 …….. I-Y6406 ………… I-Y11261 ……………. I-BY2640 ……………. I-Y50708 Each one of these SNP nodes has further branching. Someone has tested Big Y to discover these. Their current terminal SNP node is one of those above because they need someone else to test Big Y that matches any of their Novel SNPs to create the new named branch. The tree looks a bit different at YFull because not everyone in our I-M223 Project has sent their BAM file to YFull for analysis. They list the SNP node as I-Y6405 but Y6405 is one of the SNPs at the I-S10702 node and YFull prefers to name nodes using their named SNPs. https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y6405/ If we look at your cluster within the main I-S10702 “unknown” Group 3b we see potential new branching for all those with marker DYS388 = 15. These include McCubbin/Maccubbin, Matthews, McAbee and Walling. What is required now is for at least two of those to test Big Y-700.
Ryan McCubbin
March 15 @ 2:10pm
Tremendously helpful. Thank you. We had a big Y fail quality last week (after 3 mos. of being in the pipe) and have to start back at square one with someone else. The sample was from someone who is now deceased. We will get those branches filled out before summer.