G-L497 Y-DNA

  • 1942 members
Are you a member of the G-L497 Y-DNA project?
Fabrizio Castellani Fabrizio Castellani
February 16 @ 7:28am
hello everyone, have any of you heard the news? could it refer to the LBK culture and then perhaps to our Haplogrup G-L497? Extraordinary discovery at Nogarole Rocca (VERONA) Found the largest necropolis in Italy. The most important necropolis in northern Italy, probably used without interruption between the Campaniforme age, from 2500 to 2200 BC, and the Bronze Age, from 2200 to 1600 BC, was discovered at Nogarole Rocca. For almost a thousand years the deceased of the community that lived in this territory, rich in waterways and resources, were buried in the remnant of the countryside now bounded between the motorway tollgate and the vast area under construction. The necropolis proved to be one of the richest ever discovered in northern Italy between the 3rd and 2nd millennium BC, starting from the Campaniforme age, which takes its name from inverted bell-shaped ceramic cups and vases, typical artifacts of the epochs, widespread throughout Europe, from Italy to the Iberian peninsula, from Ireland to Great Britain, from Germany to Austria
Thomas Palmer Thomas Palmer has a question!
February 15 @ 3:52pm
1. Is it possible to transfer my familytreedna.com/g-ydna into the ancestry.com/family-tree DNA database? 2. If so, how can I locate the procedural instructions? Regards, Tom (Haplogroup: G-CTS4803)
jeffrey andle
February 16 @ 8:00am
Ancestry does not accept imports last time i checked and they seem to only support autosomal now.
Walter Williamson
February 16 @ 8:15am
Thomas, I could be totally wrong on this, but I don't think Ancestry allows DNA data from other companies onto their site. They want you to test with them. I also think if they did allow it, they would only want the Autosomal DNA for their application for Family matching. I had to take the Ancestry test to get my DNA on there. I couldn't find anyplace to transfer my DNA from FTDNA to their site. I am also G-CTS4803, Big Y tested to G-S15656 with future subclading pending as more people test.
Gary Wells
February 21 @ 2:34pm
Contact Orin Wells He once worked with Ancestry then transferred to (I think) family tree and handled the DNA information transfer from Ancestry to FTDNA
matthew watkins matthew watkins
February 16 @ 8:23pm
thanks for your input into these questions. In the end, my opinion is like the scholars themselves, we can only "speculate" on the past origins and migration paths. some things we can be sure of, and others we speculate on. this scholarly article says that M406 took a southern path through turkey, Greece, and into southern Italy. the l497 took a northern path through the black sea across continental Europe to rome and northern Italy. what I find very interesting to me is how L497 is such a minority of men in Europe, and to find most of the G-men, and their origins, coming from the East. When I did my DNA, I thought that based on everything I knew, I would be a typical western European R1b man. But I was wrong. I have had to re-evaluate myself, and my paternal origins. While I do like to gather with my fellow L497 brothers, I am also concerned about the larger G-men around the world now.
Robert Flachs
February 17 @ 7:36am
Matthew, nowhere in the article does it even mention the black sea so I’m not sure where you got the idea L497 went through it. When the aricle says L497 enetered Italy from the north, they are referring to the Alps (see the 2013 Berger study). But there is a great deal of speculation of the migration route to that point.
Gary Wells Gary Wells
February 14 @ 11:18am
Milissa Clark Andel: Question: To what extent has Jeff's Y DNA been tested? Do you have verifiable Royal blood? Ötzi the Iceman, a G-haplotype, 5,300 year old mummy is an interesting start. From the information I have read (because he was frozen) Scientist found blood cells in his brain that were still a viable resource for an extensive DNA. There are 101 Y alleles available at a cost. Richard III, king of England, Plantagenet was a G-haplotype, Louis XVI, king of France, Bourbon (there is some information available on his DNA results), Henry IV, King of France, Bourbon is also a G-haplotype. I believe the G-haplotype's origin came from the Scythian culture. The Scythian's were Eurasian nomads inhabiting areas in the Northern Black Sea and the Caucasus areas from the Western Eurasian Steppe to Central Asia. Boed Marres administrator of the G-PF3147 Y-DNA project, in my opinion, is the foremost expert on G-haplotypes and I suggest you contact him for further information. <bode@marres.education>
2 Comments
Robert Lewis
February 14 @ 1:37pm
I'm familiar with Boed's views, but he mostly talks about rare G subclades in Northern Europe and how they ended up there such as G-L293 and G-M406. These subgroups are more common in the Caucasus and Southern Europe than they are in Northern Europe. In a European context, G-M406 is actually quite common in the south eastern Adriatic part of Italy (Abruzzo and Puglia) and Sicily. Interestingly enough, these areas also received quite a bit of West Asian/Caucasus admixture during the Bronze Age. In Italy, G-M406 arrived there during the Bronze Age, but in a Northern European context, where G-M406 and G-L293 are very rare, they could have ended up there during later migrations. G-L293 is very rare Northern Europe, even in Southern Europe. It is mostly found in the Caucasus.
Melissa Clark Andle
February 15 @ 9:26am
Hello Gary, as Jeff stated, most of our research is not, as yet, verified. We are at the beginning. ;) However, according to the Canadian Geneological Society, our ancestress Catherine de Baillon (maternal 9 GG) is a descendant of Charlemagne over her mother´s (de Marle) family. There seem to be several kings (France, Franks, England, Ireland, Kiev Russ, etc.) in our tree. All unverified, however. The reason why we decided to test is to actually verify what many people (in Ancestry.com) and other sites claim. LOL! I did trace back to the Scythians over one family line (Eastern Franks who married into Hungary). It would be really interesting if this is the connection. I was in Kiev about 20 years ago and visited the Scythian Museum there. It was quite fascinating. They were incredible gold smiths and riders.
jeffrey andle
February 16 @ 8:04am
almost certain that our ancestors were knee deep in their farms in the Alps before any Scythian invasion. The link you have is not straight paternal (Sutter), so one does not rule out or imply the other.
Gary Wells
February 16 @ 11:18am
I am reviewing information I have but as I remember the Caucasus Scythian people along with people of the Jewish tribes began migrating some through North Africa to become Irish and Scottish though some stayed in the Southwestern region of Europe while others migrated to the Northwest becoming Gothian's, Norsemen and other cultures. Others to Asia. this occurred after the invasion of Darius I 'the Great' King of Persia born -550 BC. Note: Following a direct "Y DNA" line from Bathath Farssaidh, King of Scythia, to Logha of Ireland his daughter Sabhdh ingen Logha, his grandson is Ailill Cas-Fiacalig, 77th high king of Ireland, this includes Agnan Fionn, King of Gothia.
matthew watkins matthew watkins
February 15 @ 10:45am
according to the scholarly research at NCBI I included the article link, they show that L497 is the brother to U1 and son of p303. Well, the U1 men are the Caucasian men to include Circassians, the Ossetian "Alans" and the Georgians, who mixed with the "Alans." For example, Joseph Stalin of Georgia was u1, but his grandfather was an Ossetian Alan.
3 Comments
Robert Flachs
February 15 @ 2:34pm
From the study: The hg G2a3b1c-L497 sub-cluster, on the other hand, has so far been found essentially in European populations and therefore is probably autochthonous to Europe. While acknowledging that the inference of the age and geographic source of dispersals of Y chromosome haplogroups from the frequency and STR diversity data can be approximate at best, we speculate that this lineage could potentially be associated with the Linearbandkeramik (LBK) culture of Central Europe, as its highest frequency (3.4–5.1%) and Td estimate (Supplementary Table S4) of 10 870±3029 years ago occur there. Whereas the presence of Mideastern mtDNA in Tuscany43 supports the model of early Iron Age migrants from Anatolia (putative Etruscans) colonizing Central Italy,44 the occurrence of the G2a3b1c-L497 lineage in Italy is most likely associated to migratory flows from the north. An assessment of the Y-chromosome phylogeography-based proposal that the spread of G2a-L497 chromosomes originated from Central Europe could be achieved by typing this SNP in the Holocene period human remains from Germany31 as well as those from France and Spain.45, 46 Certainly, Y chromosome represents only a small part of human genome and any population-level interpretation of gene flow in this region would have to be supported by genome-wide evidence.
Robert Flachs
February 15 @ 2:40pm
Matthew, did you read the study you linked to? It says specifically that G/P303 entered into the Caucasus region from Anatolia and did not originate there: "Concerning the presence of hg G in the Caucasus, one of its distinguishing features is lower haplogroup diversity in numerous populations (Supplementary Table S1) compared with Anatolia and Armenia, implying that hg G is intrusive in the Caucasus rather than autochthonous."
Robert Flachs
February 15 @ 2:48pm
10,700 ybp G-U1 did go north into the Caucuses while our father clades L140/L497 went west across Anatolia eventually entering Europe in the Neolithic revolution. This project is about L497's which is a predominantly European SNP.
Robert Lewis
February 15 @ 4:48pm
Correct, G is not autochtonous to the Caucasus, but there was more than one G2a migration into the Caucasus if my mind serves me correctly. I believe the majority of clades which migrated into the Caucasus actually migrated there from the north eastern part of the Arabian peninsular/SW Iran. I think G-L293 is one of them, which is only logical, since the ancestors of G, GHIJK and F, dwelt somewhere between the Arabian peninsular and India. Humans traversed straight across the Arabian peninsular on their second out of Africa migration and ended up somewhere in the north eastern part of the Arabian peninsular, near modern day Kuwait and southern Iran. F and GHIJK stayed there for a very long time, after which G migrated in multiple directions: to the east in the direction of the Indian subcontinent, to the north into the Caucasus and NW into Anatolia and later to Europe. The first G men are thus the original paleolithic inhabitants of a region roughly corresponding to Mesopotamia prior to the arrival of Afro-Asiatic speaking people from the south i.e. the ancestors of the Natufians. Similarly, haplogroup H and I are the paleolithic inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent and Europe. The ancestors of what later could become the Dravidian people, primarily characterized by haplogroup H, for the most part replaced the autochtonous inhabitants who reached India during the first out of Africa migration, characterized by haplogroup C-M130 who also reached Australia. Australian Aboriginals actually share some ancestral components with Southern Indians because of this first migration out of Africa into India. Interestingly, haplogroup G is also found among the Dravidian speaking Brahui people of Balochistan in Pakistan, so there is a possibility that G reached India not too long after H entered India as part of the demic difusion. We can only speculate what languages G people spoke, but judging by their close phylogenetic relationship to H and IJ, there is a possibility they spoke a language which shared characteristics with Kartvelian, Dravidian and later the Etruscan/Rhaetic languages.
matthew watkins matthew watkins
February 15 @ 10:42am
Melissa Clark Andle Melissa Clark Andle
February 14 @ 7:32am
Hello everyone. I´m new to the group. My brother (Jeff) tested as a G-L497 for the Y-DNA. I´m interested in finding out more about this type. As it appears, it´s not so common the the regions our ancestors lived in (Ireland, France, Switzerland, Germany, Netherlands, Scotland, England and Wales). Would love some recommendations for interesting info links. Thanks!
jeffrey andle
February 14 @ 12:16pm
Melissa, we have no match past 23 STR's on the Y and maybe 5 full matches on U4c2a mtDNA. I swear we were a science experiment :)
Melissa Clark Andle
February 15 @ 9:13am
At this point, nothing would surprise me. ;)
matthew watkins matthew watkins
February 13 @ 9:20pm
G men of the world. Notice the G1 and most G2 in Persia and Caucasian region.
Robert Flachs
February 14 @ 9:56am
Again, you need to focus on the SNP formation times and tmrca in yfull not frequencies like this map. G formed 48500 ybp, TMRCA 26100 ybp while the "hotspot" in Moldova is from a SNP only going back a couple thousand years ago.
jeffrey andle
February 14 @ 12:15pm
Looking at all G it shows migration out of NE Turkey/Armenia under the ice caps of last glacial maximum. A number of far-off settlements flourished, but the main drift line is along the Mediterranean. High % of population more likely shows who stayed and successfully repelled invaders. The Basque and Swiss peaks and the Ural mountains are places easy to defend and inhospitable to newcomers.
Gary Wells Gary Wells
February 14 @ 11:22am
I agree with the map. The G- haplotype origin, in my opinion, is the Scythian's.
jeffrey andle
February 14 @ 12:08pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Genetics Ancient Y-DNA data was finally provided by Keyser et al in 2009. They studied the haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area in Siberia dated from between the middle of the 2nd millennium BC and the 4th century AD (Scythian and Sarmatian timeframe). Nearly all subjects belonged to haplogroup R-M17. The authors suggest that their data shows that between the Bronze and the Iron Ages the constellation of populations known variously as Scythians, Andronovians, etc. were blue- (or green-) eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people who might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilisation. Moreover, this study found that they were genetically more closely related to modern populations in eastern Europe than those of central and southern Asia.[133] The ubiquity and dominance of the R1a Y-DNA lineage contrasted markedly with the diversity seen in the mtDNA profiles. However, this comparison was made on the basis of what is now seen as an unsophisticated technique, short tandem repeats (STRs). Since the 2009 study by Keyser et al, population and geographic specific SNPs have been discovered which can accurately distinguish between "European" R1a (M458, Z280) and "South Asian" R1a (Z93)[134] Re-analyzing ancient Scytho-Siberian samples for these more specific subclades will clarify whether the Eurasian steppe populations had an ultimately Eastern European or EurAsian origin, or, perhaps, both. This, in turn, might also depend on which population is studied, i.e. Herodotus' European "classical" Scythians, the Central Asian Sakae, or un-named nomadic groups in the far east (Altai region) who also belong to the Scythian cultural tradition.[citation needed]
matthew watkins matthew watkins
February 13 @ 8:52pm
I have responded on my post to Robert and a Mauricio, and to all. My methodology is based on tracking and comparison of y-DNA, on maps, and historical records such as the Romans and Greeks. ... The problem that I find with the theories of history of L497 based on " culture" is that it is entirely subjective, relating to the ethnic or autosomal DNA, not the Y Dna. I would invite all men to look at the maps for the L497 men, certainly they are a mutation that is mostly seen and found in Western Europe. But of course these men were the sons of P303 which is your Caucasian men, including the Circassian, Ossetian Alan's, and the Georgians. Thus, one should research the entire history of these men, and how and when it was that those men came into Europe, and why.
matthew watkins
February 13 @ 9:06pm
2. Carbo dating DNA back to a timeframe is also subjective, and not perfect science. There are examples of disputes about the carbons dating of a DNA sample. So those that use the carbon dating will say the mutation of L497 is 7,000 years old. I believe it's between 2,000 and 3,000 years. I believe that L497 mutation came at the western side of the Black Sea, around Moldova or Romania or Ukraine, from there, these men spread westward towards Rome, during Roman times. before the mutation, l497 was the sons of p303 who were sons of G2a, the most populous of all the G men. However, to truly trace back these g men, we need to know where the G1 men are at. Scholars believe that G men arose likely from either eastern turkey or Persia. The maps show that most G men follow the Persian empire borders, likely that these men were from ancient Persians, Medes.
Robert Flachs
February 14 @ 6:41am
SNP’s are not carbon dated, it's done by analysis of DNA.
Robert Flachs
February 14 @ 6:42am
L497 formed 10700 ybp, TMRCA 7200 ybp. You should go to yfull.
Robert Flachs
February 14 @ 6:43am