G-L497 Y-DNA

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Are you a member of the G-L497 Y-DNA project?
Guillaume Williams Guillaume Williams
July 13 @ 6:33pm
So, I've recently found out my grandmother had my dad by another man. This came to light because my dna over on my heritage had this fellow as a 1st cousin once removed to a 2nd cousin. Well having done some digging I found out from my dad's sister-in-law that his brother told her his name was Clendon C.. Well I've done a fair amount of genealogy on this C. family and there are two Clendon C's, Sr. and Jr.. One would have been 48 and the other 20 and my grandmother was 33 so it could be either one. Attached is some known shared dna with known persons and then the Clendon C. line. The first column is my grandmother and her sister. I know Collins is my second cousin and dna on Familytreedna bears that out. My brother has dna on 23and me and Leslie C.'s relationship to my brother via dna. Her great grandfather and Edward Joseph C. Jr.'s great grandfather are brothers. They would be 3rd cousins to one another. Edward Joseph C. Jr. 's grandfather and Clendon C. Sr. are brothers. Based on this would you say Clendon Sr. or Jr. is my grandfather. Thanks.
jeffrey andle
July 14 @ 9:43am
use the 'what are the odds" tool on dnapainter.com -- I'd say how but when I had a half first cousin explain 40 unknown 3rd-5th cousins I did it by hand... I hear the tool is easy and there is a facebook help group.
Guillaume Williams
July 14 @ 2:19pm
I'll have to try it out. Thanks.
James Griffis James Griffis
July 12 @ 10:07am
Forgive my ignorance and not doing more homework before posting. I see recently that my terminal SNP was refined (Kit 851614) Originally it was G-Y132505 and now it is G-BY211678 which is an offshoot of Y132505. Is this a recent update? At YFull.com it indicates that Y132505 formed 650 YBP and TMRCA is 60 YBP. How can I interpret this? When did the offshoot from Y132505 occur? If the most recent common ancestor was only 60 years ago, what does that imply or mean? If any of the administrators can lead me to explanations it would be greatly appreciated.
Mauricio Cattel
July 13 @ 12:28pm
Hi, Mr. Griffis. Yes, according to FTDNA, you and Mr. Williams would form a new branch below G-Y132505, supposedly not shared with the third G-Y132505 member, that's why you both, Williams and Griffis, were assigned as G-BY211678. Now, as for YFull, notice that Y132505 in there has several equivalents, while in ISOGG and FTDNA trees it has not. It means, in short, lack of data in YFull, i.e., this TMRCA could change as more men shared their data with YFull. Just for example, if a man positive for Y132505 but negative for BY211678 joined YFull, and there would be at least one, the Y132505 TMRCA would change. Y132505 has no equivalents according to FTDNA, and it has potentially one equivalent according to ISOGG, so particularly I'd expect a real TMRCA of "more or less" 600 ybp for G-Y131505. Finally, G-Y132505 structure, in theory, should be refined even more as we get more men with BigY700 results, either in new tests or in upgrades. Let's wait.
Walter Williamson
July 14 @ 10:11am
We love it when men with isolated SNP's get matched up and form new branches.
James Griffis
July 14 @ 10:43am
Thank you Mauricio for your explanation. You concisely explain the development of the various YDNA trees and that this is continuously evolving with new data. You also point to an interesting subject concerning the differences between the YFull, ISOGG and FTDNA trees. For me, it is exciting to see that I am able to be part of this development.
Gary Wells Gary Wells
July 13 @ 3:33pm
Brian Hamman: This could prove an interesting subject concerning the migration of people into the America's. Possibly from South America. Includes DNA information. <https://dna-explained.com/2014/09/23/analyzing-the-native-american-clovis-anzick-ancient-results/> <Dna Results | Dna Results https://www.socialscour.com/Dna Results>
Don Salvadori Don Salvadori has a question!
June 24 @ 8:10pm
My brother's DNA haplogroup was G-CTS4803. Now it is G-BY102306. I think he is still haplogroup G and BY stands for Big Y. But what does the rest mean? Thanks, Rosemary
Walter Williamson
June 28 @ 1:25pm
Rosemary, BY is the prefix that is given SNP's that FTDNA name. You can find BY snp's with any snp testing whether it be a snp pack or Y500 or Y700. What the BY102306 terminal snp means is that your brother is a separate branch under the CTS4803 snp. It means ftdna refined his Haplogroup by one twig on the Haplotree. If you go to the his Homepage, you will see at the bottom of the page, a Tab labeled Public Haplotree. If you click the appropriate tabs down the G tree, you will come to CTS4803 and under that SNP will be a line with 9 branches coming off of it. BY102306 is the last one down that line. It shows two men with that BY102306 snp. MRCA in Poland and the other in Italy. With your brother's last name I am assuming he is the Italy one.
Pawel Podolski
June 29 @ 1:08pm
btw, I am BY102306 from Poland ;)
Rolf Carlsson
June 30 @ 3:20pm
Hello Rosemary. I assume you have received the detailed analysis from Ray Banks. Don’s unique branch under BY 102306 is BY73069. I will mail an explaining chart.
Don Salvadori
July 10 @ 3:19pm
Thank you all for your replies! And thank you Rolf. I did get your e-mail and you explained things wonderfully! I appreciate all of the information and charts. I have updated our most distant direct male ancestor recently on Don's profile page. I have been able to trace the Panarotto line back to about 1700 in Montorso Vicentina and Arzignano in the Veneto region of Italy. Giacomo Panarotto was born circa 1700 but I do not have his birthplace. His son, Girolamo was born at Castello d'Arzignano, probably about 1735. died before 1804. His son, Giacomo Panarotto was born 2 Apr 1774, Montorso Vic. and died 28 Oct 1835 in Montorso Vic. So, those are the most distant that I have in our direct line. -Rosemary
Duayne King Duayne King has a question!
June 26 @ 12:11pm
Hello all Please forgive my ignorance, I'm just starting to try and understand these deeper haplogroup DNA results. I took the 23 and me test several years ago and got the return that my Paternal lineage was G-L30. Now I've taken the Y-111 and am G-L497. So is this result a more refined G-L30? Also is there maybe something a bit more basic that the group could recommend? I enjoyed reading "The Rise of Haplogroup G2a-L497 in Central Europe". It's very interesting but a bit confusing to me for now. Wikipedia is not very clear. Thank for letting me join the group and for any help anyone is willing to give. Duayne King Kit # B391265
2 Comments
Mauricio Cattel
July 5 @ 8:55pm
Hi, Mr. King. You very likely belong to the branch G-Z41649, below G-Z16775. You can find it in the correspondant Chart: https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3077341
Mauricio Cattel
July 5 @ 8:58pm
G-Z16775 is an important G-L497's branch. Please find its place in the main G-L497 Chart, here: https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3108213
Rolf Carlsson
July 6 @ 2:15pm
Hello, if you as Mauricio assumes, belong to Z41649, the additional test would be to go for the Big700 once there are reduced prices. Please let us know whether you could consider this step. As we have no branches below Z41649 it is very interesting to expand this specific branch.
Mauricio Cattel
July 6 @ 7:51pm
Rolf C., agreed. He would likely form a new branch with Walker, so Z41658+ and/OR positive for equivalent(s).
WILLIAM WHEATER WILLIAM WHEATER has a question!
July 5 @ 5:31pm
I believe my L497 results are available, but am not sure where to go from here. I read that I should click on G(15) in Projects, but only see G(16).
Mauricio Cattel
July 5 @ 8:41pm
Hi, Mr. Wheater. In my opinion, no need of further tests, since you have a close match with BigY700 pending. You probably belong to the same clade as him. Let's wait and see what it is. As for the other issue, not sure what you mean, but I guess you don't need to click anywhere. You're already a member of this Project. Regards!
Gary Wells Gary Wells
June 23 @ 9:50pm
The decision to claim that the DNA haplotype R - Z381 belongs to all members of the House of Capet and the House of Bourbon may have been some what rash when clearly Henry IV, formerly Henry III "King of Navarre", was born: 13 December 1553 France assassinated: 14 May 1610 France was a G-haplotype. By his first marriage to Margaret Valois born: May 14, 1553 died: March 27, 1615 married Henry 1572 annulled 1599. No children were conceived during this union. Married second Marie De' Medici born: 26 April 1575 Firenez, Toscana – 3 July 1642 on October of 1600 by proxy. Marie lived a very colorful life giving rise to the question of the paternity of Louis XIII born: September 27, 1601 France died May 14, 1643 France. When Louis XIII assumed the Throne in 1610 the Queen refused to step down as regent and in 1617 was exiled. He also ordered the imprisonment of Concino Concini 1st Marquis d'Ancre born: circa 1575 died: 24 April 1617. Concino came to France from Italy with Marie De' Medici as part of her council. He was highly favored by Marie and possably the father of Louis XIII. Gary W. Wells M-G201 FTDNA # 247173
Walter Williamson
June 28 @ 1:37pm
Well, I believe that most all Royal bloodlines are suspect. We know what was recorded but we don't always know what went on behind the tapestries. It was incumbent on females to produce a male heir. Well, we know it is the man that makes that decision and not the woman. Thus if a wife didn't have a male heir with her husband, then the next best thing was to produce one with a courtier. A man is a man when it comes to keeping your position next to your husband and not be replaced with someone who could give him his male heir. So I suspect you will find different Haplogroups, blood types and SNP's that couldn't possibly happen naturally in any royal lineage. So best not go digging up the dead and running DNA on them, because some won't actually be Royal, but the stable boys son.
Gary Wells
June 28 @ 4:42pm
I do not disagree, however, we now have two haplotypes that are confirmed Royals. There is a person of interest: Concino Concini, 1st Marquis d'Ancre an Italian politician, best known for being a minister of Louis XIII of France while Marie de Medici was Queen reagent. He was high favored by Marie. He was showered with gifts and with land, purchased with the French Royal Treasury, by Marie. It is in my opinion Concino Concini is a R-Z 381 Haplotype and that the true Royals of France knew or believed she had conceived Louis XIII by a lover and after Louis the XIV managed to find a Royal G-haplotype who became a back door man from the Kingdom of Navarre. I give Louis XVI of France as a shinning example.
Gary Wells Gary Wells
June 28 @ 9:35am
Can anyone tell me what function DYS 435 serve's or what part of our physical body does it affect? DYS 435 12 is an extremely rare allele and I have found it in two blood lines only. The Descendants of George Wells born 1684 and second wife Susannah Ward Wells (Swanson) born: unknown died: 1725. George's had two sons by his first wife Alice Walls, George Jr. Wells born: 1711 and Joseph Wells b: 1713. They have an 11 at DYS 435. George Sr. Wells married third Sarah Plummer. They had son's and daughter's per Sarah's will. I have not seen any DNA results from those descendants. The second is John Basse born: 1616 died: 1699 and his male descendants.
Philippe PERISSOL Philippe PERISSOL has a question!
June 25 @ 3:56am
Hello all, In the paper “High resolution mapping of Y haplogroup G in Tyrol (Austria)”, we can see 2 maps: One shows the “Frequency Distribution of Haplogroup G2a-L497” And one shows the “Variance Distribution of Haplogroup G2a-L497” You can see both maps on the site of Steve Hissem, section “The Rise of Haplogroup G2a-L497 in Central Europe” http://shissem.com/Hissem_DNA.html And surprisingly both maps do not match: the highest frequency is in the Alps, but the maximum of variance is in North of Germany, lower Saxony. So it suggests that a major resettlement took place at a certain time, from the North to the South (maybe the Alps were a refuge) My question: does a variance distribution map exist for the G-CTS4803? I am curious to know where the first bearer of the G-CTS4803 haplogroup used to live.
16 Comments
Philippe PERISSOL
June 27 @ 11:50am
Another interesting case from the Saxony region: “Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld 4*G2a2a(3*a1) Various: 5212..5201- 5009..4850 BC Lipson/Olande+2017 LBK” http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/report-2017-ancient-revised.pdf I wonder if it has not a link with the introduction of agriculture into Scandinavia: “We show that Scandinavia was settled after the retreat of the glacial ice sheets from a southern and a northern route, and that the first Scandinavian Neolithic farmers derive their ancestry from Anatolia 1000 years earlier than previously demonstrated.” https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/03/03/113241.full.pdf What is supposed to search a farmer? For farming a plain is better than a mountainous land. But for taking refuge the mountains are a better place.
Robert Flachs
June 27 @ 1:29pm
Too old for CTS4803 (4600 ybp) and there are many possibilities in between as he was not typed very far (L30 is at least a 14400 year old subclade) but it is interesting that the other LBK samples from the spreadsheet I linked to in a prior comment (including the Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld) were PF3147's which is the Otzi branch and this Saxony-Anhalt one at least could've been U1, CTS342, or even L497. Odd that he wasn't in the spreadsheet, unless I missed it?
Philippe PERISSOL
June 28 @ 3:54am
Hello Robert, Ötzi is on page 7 (4500-3400 BC: The spread of copper) and page 8 (3400-2925 BC: The rise of the Yamnaya). 4000 years had elapsed since the first G-L497 man (8000-6000 BC: The Neolithic revolution) till Ötzi(G-L91). We and Ötzi diverge at the L1259 node of the G-Tree?
Philippe PERISSOL
June 28 @ 8:27am
Using the Block Tree of FTDNA, I have looked at the autosomal ancestry corresponding to each subclade. And I was astonished to discover the following facts: British ancestry explodes at the G-P303 subclade and the tendency persists downstream to CTS4803. So it suggests that the G-P303 men were at an earlier stage in contact with populations who migrated to Great-Britain. (G-P303: formed 12 000 BC). Scandinavian ancestry begins at the G-P303 subclade with a small 6%, and explodes at the G-CTS2230: 19% of Scandinavian ancestry and for this subclade there is a peak of British ancestry too: 51% CTS2230 was formed 2600 BC, so it suggests a link with the Corded Ware and its expansion towards the North: “Whatever happened, the fact is that c. 2400 BC. this people of the Corded Ware replaced their predecessors and expanded to Danubian and Nordic areas of western Germany. One related branch invaded Denmark and southern Sweden (Scandinavian culture of Individual Sepultures), while the mid-Danubian basin, though showing more continuity, also displayed clear traits of new Indo-European elites (Vučedol culture).” (Wikipedia) G2a were found at Wroclaw-Jagodno (Poland), Corded Ware culture.
Guillaume Williams Guillaume Williams
May 25 @ 4:46am
So, I had tested for the L497 with YSEQ and it came back positive. My furthest back male ancestor was 1820 in Jausiers, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, Provence-Alpes-Cote D'Azur, France. I guess that would confirm somewhat the Italian/Swiss being in the Alps region.
4 Comments
Gary Wells
June 24 @ 9:48pm
Guillaume isn't that French for William?
Guillaume Williams
June 24 @ 11:44pm
It's French for Wilhelm. ;) William is English for Wilhelm.
Robert Flachs
June 25 @ 6:06am
Guillaume, thank your brother because he just saved you buying a SNP pack! Yes, CTS10391 is shown in project chart C as S23438 which falls under the big branches of CTS4803 to S2808. You’re now tested to about 1,400 BC.
jeffrey andle
June 26 @ 12:21pm
... and a couple steps closer to me (G-S18765-L667 and beyond)