About us
Introductory E-mail often sent to new potential members that I contact. I try to find potential participants that have posted about their genealogy on Rootsweb, Ancesty or Genforum posting sites.
November 2010 INTRODUCTORY E-MAIL
This is the first of three e-mails, an introduction, following that is one about what the male line Y-Chromosome DNA testing is, why it works, & what it doesn't do. The third will cover how to sign up (if you perhaps decide to join us), what the test is like, and additional information on the main site page.
MY BACKGROUND:
My name is Richard J. "Dick" Fletcher. My wife is a Ditty from an Irish line from Samuel Ditty b. 1798 or 1801, whose son William Ditty (married Margaret Wilson) in Cookstown in 1852 & emigrated from Co. Londonderry, Ireland, to Scotland around 1860. I am a Fletcher family historian, and have been involved in a Fletcher DNA program for 3 1/2 years, and have been quite satisfied with the results. I have followed my Fletcher line since I was 16 and am now retired. Last year I started a Ditty DNA group, using the FamilyTreeDNA testing lab (not related to the Family Tree Maker display program).
We started with three members in 2009 and have now grown to eight members.
You will see that we have a representative of each of the two Swiss Ditty lines (originally surnamed DeDie) that came over in colonial days. We have one participant who does not have a match with the others, but was thought to have descended from a Swiss line. So we have another DNA line, that may be a second line from either a Swiss or Irish source, or a variation introduced by an adoption type of event. Then we have five participants who are from Irish lines, and most Irish Dittys seem to come from County Londonderry (Derry, if you prefer), Northern Ireland. Three of these represent lines that emigrated to the U.S., one emigrated to Scotland, and one line stayed in Ireland.
All of these are described a bit better at the public Ditty Surname site on the main or Background Page, along with the actual testing results, see Menu link for Y-DNA results. Go to: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ditty/default.aspx
The results numbers are simply the number of times that a short DNA segment repeats itself, as a slight variation of an ancient copy mutation. All of the Irish lines have close results that indicate that they go back to a common male ancestor within the past 800 years (however it is more likely to be between the 1500 to 1700's). Each has a slight variation at one or two allele points (the numbering sequence where the lab tests), but there is a full agreement at 32 of the 37 sites and a best 3 of 4 at the others. This helps us build a Modal or mean value of what the original most recent common ancestor's values might be. An extremely close match with another surname at 37 or eventually 67 points could indicate a connection before the Ditty surname became fixed in use, perhaps a precursor name or relatives that took up different surnames about 800 to 1000 years ago..
I should mention the cost on this 37 marker test is $153 for U.S. destinations (includes a $4 shipping fee, but is $6 for an international shipping fee, thus $155.00). If there is any desire to upgrade later, they retain the sample for 25 years. In the past they have typically run two sale periods, without a lot of pre-notification, in the June/July and Dec. time frame, and this usually is at a $30.00 savings for the 37 marker test. This is usually sufficient to classify most relationships.
You can see this Ditty Surname website at: www.familytreedna.com/public/Ditty It is a cookie cutter format site that FT-DNA provides, so search top menu links for participant info and test result comparison. You can also see my Fletcher site at, http://www.genealogy.fletcher.net/Major%20Fletcher%20Lines.htm (I'm in the Moses Fletcher subgroup) and this is a more developed site with a broader family (over 140 members with 45 different DNA lines) with many different sub-DNA groups, since it was a trade name. You can also go to the FT-DNA website at www.familytreedna.com and review information at the FAQ tab.
From the limited data, it looks like the N. Ireland Ditty's are closely matched and are of the R Haplogroup (R1b1b2), and the Swiss line Ditty's are matched to each other and are of the I Haplogroup (I1), but unrelated to the Irish lines. There were two Swiss DeDie families that came over about 20 years apart from the same town or province area, and were probably related, and were good farmers, so a lot of the US Ditty's are in this group. These emigrants from Switzerland identified themselves as French Swiss Protestants, thus probably best classified as Huguenots who were forced out of France.
One nice aspect of DNA testing is that it confirms or negates relationships with other tested members, along a male line of descent, to the degree that they do or do not descend from a recent common ancestor, in recent genealogical time of 800 to 1000 years (time limit based on surname usage). This can save a lot of paper trail search time. If you had considered doing this type of testing two years ago, you would get results but would not have had any other Dittys to compare to. Once started, this type program grows in value to the members with each new addition over the years to come.
The next e-mail will cover just what the DNA testing is and how it works, and what are it's limitations. At any rate, even if you decide not to join us, you can follow our progress and learn more about the many branches of the Ditty surname, and where they have migrated to.
Best Regards,
Richard J. "Dick" & Elizabeth A. "Liz" Fletcher, (302) 731-8799
SECOND E-MAIL: WHAT IS DNA TESTING AND WHY DOES IT WORK:
Y-Chromosome DNA testing started in 2000, and works because of two factors. First, women are XX for the sex chromosome while men are XY. So when husband and wife have a male child, the wife has no dominant or recessive genes to contribute to the son's Y-chromosome, thus the husband's Y-DNA passes unchanged to his son, having come from before his GGGG-Grandfather, and will go to his GGGG-Grandson, along unbroken male lines of descent. Unchanged, that is, with the caveat that at the ancient copy mutation points that are being tested, they can infrequently change by one or two copies up or down.
The second factor is the ancient copy mutation sites which have varied over the years. Scientists found that these ancient copy mutations in the Y-Chromosome go back 20,000 to 30,000 years or more. These are usually short segments of the 4 DNA molecules that rather than show up one time, show up as a multiple copy, sometimes varying from 5 to 30+ repeats. These ancient copy mutation points are not as stable as the normal DNA and can occasionally change the number of repeats, usually increasing or decreasing by one copy, perhaps in every 6 to 10 generations at one or two random points. However if a father has three sons, and an additional mutation occurs, it will only occur in one son, and that son's line of descent will be subtlety different from the male lines of descent of his brothers. Over 20,000+ years these differences have become quite broad among the various families of man, and within the last 800+ years that surnames have been used, can be an excellent tracking method to determine relationships between different lines descending from a common male ancestor.
Men can also be categorized into ~23 haplogroups, which are descendants of old tribal groups that each have it's own most recent common ancestor for the major group. More significant differences exist between haplogroups, but even within each separate haplogroup, there are broad variations of the Y-DNA testing point results. Some of these groups co-exist in different areas (like Europe), and there are inter marriages between the men and women of different groups, but the male Y-chromosome, follows from decades farther back passing from father to son without any interference from mothers of different female haplogroups.
The points that we test are identified as allele numbered locations. By measuring at 37 allele points, we can be confident that for comparison between two individuals, with a testedGenetic Distance of 4 or less (four allele markers differing by one, or two markers differing by 2 each, etc.) that they go back to a common ancestor in recent genealogical time, usually about 800 years. Additional testing is available up to 67 markers, but would only be recommended if there is a special situation requiring more clarity.
Usually you can find non surname matches (common at 12 markers) that go back to before surnames were commonly used, thus much older connections. This can also indicate an unusual paternity event from about 7 or more possibilities, but that's hard to confirm.
WHAT DOES DNA TESTING TELL US
Basically, the determination is either that a tested person is or is not related to another person, through a common male line ancestor, within recent genealogical time, usually about 800 years. If the determination is within the scientific standards they are closely related (more points of difference are allowed with more tested points - but non surname close matches usually spread farther apart with additional testing). If related, FT-DNA has a good estimation tool which shows percentage probabilities of the common ancestor being at 4, 8, 12, or more generations back.
In tracing paper trail records, it sometimes is very helpful to know which families you are not related to. This is more important in a broad family like mine (45 major DNA variations tested so far out of 140+ participants). This is not a big a factor with the Ditty lines, but already we have found that the Swiss Ditty/DeDie line is quite genetically different. We may eventually find that there are two or three different DNA lines from the Irish Ditty families. Recent results indicate that the lines of the two known Ditty/DeDie emigrants are in fact from the same line, and we may someday find matches to lines of current day DeDie's.
If one of the Ditty's from the late 1700's or early 1800's had a minor allele value shift that uniquely matches another, then it could help tie these two tested lines into a closer relationship than to the lines of his otherwise related cousins. Thus old mutation shifts can help to cluster several related matching members.
WHAT DNA WON'T IT TELL US
The results won't define that one person is a son of another, just that they come from from a common ancestor. There are other specific tests that can do that, even specific tests for health concern trends, and distant cousin relationships from all your lines (this is new) and these are all more expensive. It won't say that one paper trail to an 1804 male birth is a brother to another paper trail for an 1807 male birth in the same county and town. If the paper trail doesn't tell you, this will just say that they come from a common ancestor. If their descendants have a perfect 37/37 match, then the probability of a closer relationship is greater (but this is probability math).
Our Y-37 DNA test doesn't define medical history or future health risk. Some of our tested allele sites may even be from "junk" DNA that the body doesn't use, but the important thing is that it follows specific rules for passing from generation to generation with very infrequent changes.
WHY TEST WITH FAMILY TREE DNA
They are the first major DNA testing lab, and have good scientific connections. They also have a significant advantage with the greatest number of tested members. I know of no Ditty's that have tested with a different lab. They go out of their way to increase the opportunity for matching members to communicate with each other. The Y-search data share program allows FT members and participants from other programs to log their results in for cross lab comparison, but the main help is the network of individual family names being organized into Surname Programs, which use volunteer coordinators to manage the inter family display of data and research notes. We can often take in other testing agency results, but with the limited function of the free on-line site that I have, I can only pull in data from FT-DNA tests. Other testing site results would probably have to be described verbally with results variation in text rather than a chart.
I look forward to having you consider joining us in the Ditty DNA program. I have some old write ups that expand on some of this info, that I could send if you feel you need more information, but by now you should have a basic understanding. Also if you go to the www.familytreedna.com/ site and check the FAQ link near the top, you can get to some additional material. I am also available for specific questions.
Best Regards, Richard J. "Dick" Fletcher, (302) 731-8799
Y-Chromosome DNA testing started in 2000, and works because of two factors. First, women are XX for the sex chromosome while men are XY. So when husband and wife have a male child, the wife has no dominant or recessive genes to contribute to the son's Y-chromosome, thus the husband's Y-DNA passes unchanged to his son, having come from before his GGGG-Grandfather, and will go to his GGGG-Grandson, along unbroken male lines of descent. Unchanged, that is, with the caveat that at the ancient copy mutation points that are being tested, they can infrequently change by one or two copies up or down.
The second factor is the ancient copy mutation sites which have varied over the years. Scientists found that these ancient copy mutations in the Y-Chromosome go back 20,000 to 30,000 years or more. These are usually short segments of the 4 DNA molecules that rather than show up one time, show up as a multiple copy, sometimes varying from 5 to 30+ repeats. These ancient copy mutation points are not as stable as the normal DNA and can occasionally change the number of repeats, usually increasing or decreasing by one copy, perhaps in every 6 to 10 generations at one or two random points. However if a father has three sons, and an additional mutation occurs, it will only occur in one son, and that son's line of descent will be subtlety different from the male lines of descent of his brothers. Over 20,000+ years these differences have become quite broad among the various families of man, and within the last 800+ years that surnames have been used, can be an excellent tracking method to determine relationships between different lines descending from a common male ancestor.
Men can also be categorized into ~23 haplogroups, which are descendants of old tribal groups that each have it's own most recent common ancestor for the major group. More significant differences exist between haplogroups, but even within each separate haplogroup, there are broad variations of the Y-DNA testing point results. Some of these groups co-exist in different areas (like Europe), and there are inter marriages between the men and women of different groups, but the male Y-chromosome, follows from decades farther back passing from father to son without any interference from mothers of different female haplogroups.
The points that we test are identified as allele numbered locations. By measuring at 37 allele points, we can be confident that for comparison between two individuals, with a testedGenetic Distance of 4 or less (four allele markers differing by one, or two markers differing by 2 each, etc.) that they go back to a common ancestor in recent genealogical time, usually about 800 years. Additional testing is available up to 67 markers, but would only be recommended if there is a special situation requiring more clarity.
Usually you can find non surname matches (common at 12 markers) that go back to before surnames were commonly used, thus much older connections. This can also indicate an unusual paternity event from about 7 or more possibilities, but that's hard to confirm.
WHAT DOES DNA TESTING TELL US
Basically, the determination is either that a tested person is or is not related to another person, through a common male line ancestor, within recent genealogical time, usually about 800 years. If the determination is within the scientific standards they are closely related (more points of difference are allowed with more tested points - but non surname close matches usually spread farther apart with additional testing). If related, FT-DNA has a good estimation tool which shows percentage probabilities of the common ancestor being at 4, 8, 12, or more generations back.
In tracing paper trail records, it sometimes is very helpful to know which families you are not related to. This is more important in a broad family like mine (45 major DNA variations tested so far out of 140+ participants). This is not a big a factor with the Ditty lines, but already we have found that the Swiss Ditty/DeDie line is quite genetically different. We may eventually find that there are two or three different DNA lines from the Irish Ditty families. Recent results indicate that the lines of the two known Ditty/DeDie emigrants are in fact from the same line, and we may someday find matches to lines of current day DeDie's.
If one of the Ditty's from the late 1700's or early 1800's had a minor allele value shift that uniquely matches another, then it could help tie these two tested lines into a closer relationship than to the lines of his otherwise related cousins. Thus old mutation shifts can help to cluster several related matching members.
WHAT DNA WON'T IT TELL US
The results won't define that one person is a son of another, just that they come from from a common ancestor. There are other specific tests that can do that, even specific tests for health concern trends, and distant cousin relationships from all your lines (this is new) and these are all more expensive. It won't say that one paper trail to an 1804 male birth is a brother to another paper trail for an 1807 male birth in the same county and town. If the paper trail doesn't tell you, this will just say that they come from a common ancestor. If their descendants have a perfect 37/37 match, then the probability of a closer relationship is greater (but this is probability math).
Our Y-37 DNA test doesn't define medical history or future health risk. Some of our tested allele sites may even be from "junk" DNA that the body doesn't use, but the important thing is that it follows specific rules for passing from generation to generation with very infrequent changes.
WHY TEST WITH FAMILY TREE DNA
They are the first major DNA testing lab, and have good scientific connections. They also have a significant advantage with the greatest number of tested members. I know of no Ditty's that have tested with a different lab. They go out of their way to increase the opportunity for matching members to communicate with each other. The Y-search data share program allows FT members and participants from other programs to log their results in for cross lab comparison, but the main help is the network of individual family names being organized into Surname Programs, which use volunteer coordinators to manage the inter family display of data and research notes. We can often take in other testing agency results, but with the limited function of the free on-line site that I have, I can only pull in data from FT-DNA tests. Other testing site results would probably have to be described verbally with results variation in text rather than a chart.
I look forward to having you consider joining us in the Ditty DNA program. I have some old write ups that expand on some of this info, that I could send if you feel you need more information, but by now you should have a basic understanding. Also if you go to the www.familytreedna.com/ site and check the FAQ link near the top, you can get to some additional material. I am also available for specific questions.
Best Regards, Richard J. "Dick" Fletcher, (302) 731-8799
Cost:
The normal price for surname participants at 37 markers, who will share their DNA values, is $149 + $4 shipping or $153 ($2 more for international orders). That's about $20 below the list price if people only want to compare between two individuals, without sharing with a surname group. It's not a major cost, but still I pause before spending that much on many things for myself. I also hate to try to talk someone into a very quick decision without the time to reflect on it.
Usually twice a year FT-DNA offers a sale pricing, normally on the 37 marker test, and usually in June or July and then in November or December. These sale periods are not pre-announced, and are normally for a two or three week period, and usually are offered as a $30.00 discount to the above prices, but nothing is for sure, just past practice. Test results can take 6 to 8 weeks, and if you delayed for a sale and missed it, the wait would just be that much longer.
You do have to sign the permission slip to allow the surname coordinator to see and post your results, for the surname group pricing. This also opens up your ability to see matches to others.
As the Ditty Surname coordinator, I get e-mail copy notifications to new sign ups, new match notifications to even non Ditty surnamed people, and can see the entry data sheet for your mailing address.
Signup: In case you consider signing up for DNA testing, these are the step by step sign up instructions.
We use FT-DNA because it is the largest, with the leading scientific analysis and has a better ability to compare results through using the Surname Group System, and "group" testing is at a discount to the list prices, since the agreement to share results builds the usefulness of the total system to all participants.
When your ready to sign up (or just log in to check prices or do a dry run),
1) go to the FT site at: http://www.familytreedna.com/
2) then go to and click the "Projects" link along the top, and on the new page in the "Surname Search Box" and enter "Ditty" & return. [you could go through the alphabet surname link "D" and then search for Ditty, and select (this is also a way to check for other surname projects in your genealogy)].
3) On the new page, under Project click on "Ditty" (currently listing 8 members).
You will get to this page: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Ditty
[This page also shows the link to the Ditty Surname web site: www.familytreedna.com/public/Ditty]
4) Then on this page scroll down, (See under "Y-Chromosome - DNA TEST") you can then click on the "Y-DNA37" priced at $149.00 (there will be a $4.00 shipping fee also, $6.00 international), confirm this price.
If you signed up during a sale period, this would probably be $119.00, plus shipping.
When ready to order, Click on ORDER NOW, (or review and wait to check for a sale price) and
5) on the next screen you confirm a male test and the Y-DNA 37 test and price, click "Next"
6) the following screen will collect your contact info,
6a) name of person tested, and also "allow" you to enter:
6b) Family Surname (if different): where you can/must enter "Ditty" (to get the surname group discount,
the List price is higher), then
6c) enter the shipping address of the person taking the test and primary and secondary e-mail. If a sponsor, you should probably
6d) enter your phone & e-mail as primary and then enter the sponsored testee's e-mail as secondary. Click Next.
7) The next screen, if a payment screen, you can choose the Invoice method (for a check payment) or a credit card method. I choose the Credit card method, but either will work. It's a secure site, but I keep one card for internet purchases only and make less than 8 purchases a year, so if it's compromised it can be easily tracked. If you select the invoice method, you will have to confirm that address, especially if it is different then the person being tested.
YOU CAN PROCEED TO THIS POINT FOR PRACTICE, AND THEN CANCEL & WAIT FOR THE SALE.
8) The final screen(s) are confirmation, final commitment, etc. If a kit is ordered but never used, it can be returned for refund (probably less shipping). Print out a copy for your records.
That should be about it. Payment is to "Family Tree DNA", and should be $153 at non sale rates, with US shipping.
Other info:
As they send out the test kit, they will identify it with a "Kit number" which is your ID number. They will confirm the receipt of the order by e-mail and about a week after they receive the kit back they will e-mail a passcode to your primary and secondary e-mail addresses. These are computer generated, and you would have to go to their customer service to change. I will function as the Ditty surname coordinator, and will have access to the results. If one of the Ditty tested members wants to get highly involved, it is possible to assign an assistant surname coordinator.
There is a sheet to sign accepting the coordinator seeing and posting your results (otherwise you would never be able to compare to other tested people).
If anything in this process hangs up, you can call me at 302 - 731-8799, and I'm typically up late and my wife usually records our TV shows, in case the kids call and interrupt. We do often eat out.
The test kit itself contains two or three "swab" sticks, each with a firm paper saw like tip, which you are asked to scrub on one side of the inner cheek for over a minute. After that there is a collection tube with a preservative, and by pressing on the other end of the stick, the paper swab is disconnected and left in the collection tube. They keep parts of the sample for 25 years, and if you ever decided to do more testing, they can use the original swab for several retests.
By the way the test kit takes about a week to get, and then about 6 to 8 weeks after return, before the results come in. You will get your main ID number (kit number) with the kit, then about a week after you send it in, you will get a password code by e-mail. Write those down where you won't loose them. About a week after that you could log in, and on the left margin there will be a Pending Results link, which will take you to an estimated test completion timing. The 37 markers are done in three panels, and you may get one or two panels done before the last one is completed.
Londonderry Co Ditty's should match Robert Ditty or Pat Ditty, plus three others, & that would be great results, but if you didn't, it would also be very meaningful as that would indicate that there could be several lines within the narrow number of Ditty surname descendants. A match to the Swiss Dittys (DeDie) would have other implications. Years ago I had a phone search program, and found only about 260 U.S. entries for the Ditty surname.
Even more striking are results from different haplogroups (oops, more study time required). Our two Swiss Ditty's (DeDie) are Haplogroup I1, and are probably of French Huguenot descent, while the four N. Ireland participant origins are Haplogroup R1b1b2, but the theory of William of Orange soldiers as sources for the Ditty surname around the battle of Boyne in 1690 sounds less than likely since there are too many Ditty's in N. Ireland in the 1700's. Time may tell, or just raise more questions. I will continue to try to find other Ditty's to test.
After they receive the collection samples back, it will take up to a week before you can log in on to your personal FT-dna page. There are two control numbers, one of which is the kit number, and the other, a password, which will be e-mailed to you after they enter it into the system. Write those down where you won't loose them.
When you can sign on to your page, there won't initially be any comparisons yet. However on the left side there will be links, one of which is to Pending Results, which should give an estimated date for when the results will be posted. There are 3 different panels that comprise the 37 marker test level, and the first 12 markers are often completed and listed before the others. You won't see your test results on the comparison page (just those you match to), but on the left side of the page there is a link which will show you your specific test results as "DYS values". Another left side link is for "Contact information" which you should verify. Also there is a "User Preferences" panel link, and I suggest that you set it for:
1) Show results for comparison to all surnames (entire database).
2) Show results for comparison at 12, 25 and 37 markers (three bullet buttons to click active)
3) List your oldest paternal ancestor, and perhaps two generations of descent.
You will also have to confirm on the main page at the top of the left hand side, under "My Project Groups" that "Ditty" is shown and bullet circle selected. There is a Join Projects link, if required. You can be in more than one group, ask later.
These selections can be changed later if you desire. Some names have a lot of non-surname matches at the 12 marker level, but it is best initially to compare against all (perhaps to a DeDie or DeWitte). These can be matches from before surnames were assigned, but with additional tested markers their will be fewer non-surname matches and with more genetic differences.
After all 37 marker results are in, you can upload to Y-search. This allows comparisons to others from other testing agencies, if they choose to enter their results here. There is an automatic function, but I can advise how to do that if that process gets interrupted.
Finally be prepared for a long wait, as it will typically be up to a two month wait. Occasionally they are quicker than the early estimates, but usually one or two of the panels will be a bit longer.
If you decide to upgrade to additional markers later, or obtain a deep clade test for detailed Haplogroup testing, your sample will be held for 25 years, and they can retrieve that and run additional tests without going thru the "swab" process again.
All the best for now,
Dick Fletcher (302) 731-8799
PS: This is the type of confirmation message you should receive when the order goes thru.
"Thank you for ordering the Y-DNA37 test.Your sample kit number is XXXXXX. The price of your order is $153.00 (149.00 + $4.00 shipping)(or a sale price), and either:
a) the MC/Visa credit card ending in XXXXXXXXXXXX#### will be charged. -or-
b) an invoice will be sent
We appreciate your business,
Family Tree DNA
http://www.FamilyTreeDNA.com info@familytreedna.com
The world's first and largest Genetic Genealogy organization"