All R1b-S1194 and lower sub-clades (CTS4528, A8039)
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About us

(Below information last updated October 2019 - admin).
(01 Oct 2019 - revised details).
(NOTE: The following data is always open to improvement and re-interpretation based on new discoveries and evolving information. Such changes are a certainty).

This project is a special focus project for the SNP S1194 and below (A8039, CTS4528/DF100, etc: ) .  If you are not positive for any of these SNPs or sub-SNPs, you should look for an alternate project that does focus on your terminal SNP or allocated Haplogroup.

The R1b-S1194 SNP is one of at least four branches that are estimated to have mutated from L151 approx 4800 years ago somewhere in Europe. The four branches called R1b-P312, R1b-U106, R1b-S1194 (us) and R1b-A8053. These four Y-DNA lines make up the bulk of Western Europe. R1b-P312 and its many sub-branches are the dominat line and the name 'Celtic' is most often associated with this Y-DNA line. R1b-U106 is smaller than P312 and associated with 'Scandinavian & Germanic' peoples.  R1b-S1194 (this project), shows evidence of association with 'South Baltic/Germanic' peoples. R1b-S1194 is tiny by comparison to the other two. R1b-A8053 is tiny but seems to be in the same locations as R1b-S1194. These naming labels are very loose and merely a guide as to some positioning of the four Y-DNA lines.

The goal of the project is to try to trace the origins and migration paths of R1b-S1194 (also called CTS4528/DF100) over the last 5,000 years or so. So, if you have any of these SNPs please feel free to join.

A very brief history of R1b-M269 and its impact on Europe:

This is a summary based on current knowledge as of 1st half 2019. It may change as more detailed information becomes available especially from on-going ancient DNA discoveries in Europe. So, for those deeply interested, one history starting at R1b-M269 is covered well by Prof David Anthony in the below link to a recent update of his works - (at the linked to PDF document, See story 2 - pages 39-70). These views put forward by Prof Anthony are a good starting point. As always, expect details to change as newer data emerges. One view  put forward by Prof Anthony that may not eventuate is that R1b-P312 (and thus R1b-U106 + R1b-S1194 + R1b-A8053) arrived in Europe via the Hungarian Plains (Carpathian Basin). Prof Anthony has suggested that L11 and P312 could be found in the Kurgan burials in the Hungarian Plains but thus far only I2 DNA and R1b-Z2103 DNA (a different branch of R1b parallel to R1b-L51) are being found there.  R1b-Z2103 with I2, seems to have arrived in the Hungarian Basin from the Samara Valley then stopped there with only very small traces of R1b-Z2103 showing up any further west of the plains such as a find in in the  Vučedol Culture (Croatia). But, R1b-Z2103 can be seen today in the Balkans and Middle East with some small remaining Y-DNA lines in western Europe.


Below is a link to the Eupedia R1b phylogenetic tree. It includes R1b-M269 and is helpful as a reference as to where M269 fits into the total R1b picture.  The notations on this tree is not 100% up-to-date but the main purpose is to show that R1b-L51 & R1b-Z2103 are separate brother sub-clades of R1b-L23 which in turn is a sub-clade of R1b-M269.  It is also worth noting that R1b-L23 itself is separate (a brother branch) to the Armenian R1b-PF7562 branch. That Armenian branch was one of the very early splits from R1b-M269 and is thus one of the oldest R1b lines still located in a small regional area. Today R1b-PF7562 is dominant in Armenia.

See https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml  (Scroll down to the tree).

R1b-M269, from the Pontic/Caspian Steppes to the Sth Baltic and elsewhere:

(Several of the following diagrams are the work of Edward Peggler and he 1st presented them here (an overall excellent and insightful read) ...


Edward has granted us permission to to link to his diagrams and to reuse extracts of his notes. (Please do not copy or link to them without his permission). We chose his diagrams because they convey very clear meanings in an uncomplicated way. 

Our story might begin with the Yamnaya Culture (3300-2800 BCE) which had been preceded by the Khvalynsk culture (1st half of the 5th Millenium BCE).  Both these cultures show links to the European Corded Ware culture (c. 2900-2200 BCE).  October 2019 NOTE: As of mid-2019, there are serious questions being raised as to if the R1b-L151 (immediate parent of P312-U106-S1194-A8053) was already in northern Europe *before* the Yamnaya arrived and mixed with Cordedware Culture.  This is an evolving story it may take months to resolve and depend on some new publications on ancient DNA finds.

Yamnaya origins: Samara Valley Russia  (up above Volgograd (former Stalingrad)). It is believed (W. Haak 2015 et al), that groups of Yamnaya with R1b DNA, may have migrated in multiple waves into surrounding regions. In this project, we are particularly interested in any groups that migrated to central, western and northern Europe as one of these groups carried our parent line of R1b-L23-L51-L151 DNA. Other migrating Steppes nomad groups also carried the R1a line that include (among many), the Slavic, Balto-Slavic & Uralic peoples, into Europe. Some R1a Y-DNA groups moved into others parts of Asia including what is today Turkey, Iran and northern India.  October 2019 NOTE: While the Cordedware culture is thought of as dominated by R1a, it is not completely clear if R1b reached northern Europe 1st or R1a reached there 1st or they arrived at similar times. The connection of R1b to Cordedware seems to exist but just where and when is a bit murky. October 2019 NOTE:  A new publication from Alissa Mettnik et al., (who published the 2018 paper 'The genetic prehistory of the Baltic Sea region'). is about to be released that is believed will provide many answers and raise new questions re a P312 association with Cordedware.

It is believed the R1b migration into Europe that begat P312/U106/S1194/A8053 may have occurred around 2,800-3,000 BCE. Then around 2,500 BCE, R1b-P312 in particular swept through western Europe  into Britain. and other parts of western Europe. The recent (2018) study of Bell Beakers by Olalde et al., makes a case for Bell Beaker R1b-P312 (often referred to as 'Celts') arriving in Britain around 2,500 BCE where they displaced the pre-existing WHG & EEF Y-DNA by an estimated 90% within 200 years.   October 2019 NOTE:  Several well known Citizen Scientists are raising a challenge that questions if R1b-L51 or R1b-L51-L151 were already in northern Europe before 3,000 BCE. This is an evolving story. The estimated mutation date for L151 sub-clades is around 4,800-5,000 years ago that could really only mean 2 things: 1) L151 predates the Yamnaya arrival in central Europe  or it happened back in Samara with no as yet L51 finds, and as time passes option 2 looks weaker. L51 may show as emerging in the Ukraine or close by in Russia.

Current thinking suggests that a group of people called the 'Central European Bell Beaker' peoples emerged within or adjacent to western Cordedware Culture.  Then BB later swept into many parts of Europe. AS of today Central Bell Beaker are dominantly from P312 burials. Some R1b-Z2103 BB may emerge in new publications in later 2019.

See https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/arrival-of-beaker-folk-changed-britain-forever-ancient-dna-study-shows 

There isn't really clear evidence yet as to why and how this rapid re-populating of western Europe and Britain happened.  Some thoughts on this include the following ... It may have been as a result of a pandemic affecting the existing population of UK & western plus central Europe. See https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/dec/06/earliest-plague-strain-found-in-sweden-holds-clue-to-stone-age-migration-from-east -  the change may have been by conquest (the arriving R1b-P312 Bell Beaker peoples were a warrior race) but there are some reasons to question this line of thought i.e. is it really possible for a band of P312 to sweep the majority of European and British WHG/EEF Y-DNA away in just 200-500 years? (between approximately 2800BCE and 2300BCE).  We think other reasons need to be considered but it remains a possibility. There are many known periods where the climate of the region (esp the Nth Sea) was severely impacted by weather & by seaborne inundations e.g. for some later major events See  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_transgression

Anyone who has spent time in Friesland & Jutland knows very well how low lying it all is and how swampy it is and has been.  There are and were places in JUltand where a person can travel by boat between the Baltic Sea to the North Sea.

Such weather changes could have and did have serious effects of farming and thus the people in Europe. However, the massive European population change that occurred between 2,900 BCE -2,200 BCE could also have been from any combination of the events just outlined. If it were to be shown that P312 expanded in the north Netherlands region then weather events may have favored their rapid expansion from this region.

Simplified overview of Yamnaya movement: (click link for image)


The Yamnaya peoples themselves, were an admixture of WHG (Western Hunter Gatherers), EHG (Eastern Hunter Gatherers who in turn were an admixture that included WHG + ANE (Ancient North Eurasians)). Yamna also show admixture with CHG (Caucasus Hunter Gatherer). The R1 (incl R1a & R1b) Y-DNA line appears to have come from the ANE who were known to be in Siberia. The oldest R1 burial found to date is from Mal'ta in Siberia at 24,000 YBP. Ancient branches of R1 DNA are also found in an estimated 30% of North American Indian Tribes and believed to have reached America via the Bering Straits from Siberia.

7000 BCE - 3,000 BCE: Maps of known groups and the emergence of the Yamnaya 

WHG=Western Hunter Gatherers, EHG=Eastern Hunter Gatherers, CHG=Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, EEF=Early European Farmers.

(click below links for the maps)

WHG EHG & CHG - 7000BCE: 


EEF & EHG - 4000BCE:




The Yamnaya contribution to the Cordedware Culture

Steppes nomad groups with mostly R1a Y-DNA, became the core contributor/component of the Cordedware Culture. This culture spanned Germany/Bohemia and into Russia (through and well beyond Moscow). The Western end of the Cordedware culture appears to include R1b burials (NOTE: later 2019 publications should confirm this) whereas the bulk of Cordedware region burials (spreading north east from Bohemia) appear as dominantly R1a Y-DNA with little to no R1b Y-DNA showing up outside today's Germany & Czech regions. Many researchers are still looking into why this split of R1a/R1b  shows up in the Western Cordedware edge and that R1a tends to dominate elsewhere in Cordedware burials. 


At the western End of the Cordedware Culture a later highly influential culture emerged called the Únětice Culture centered in Bohemia. Today that area is covered by both Czech Republic and Slovakia plus parts of adjacent countries (incl: Poland, Germany & Ukraine). There is some evidence emerging in ancient DNA burials suggesting this region could have been an origin or starting point for P312 & possibly even U106 & thus perhaps also S1194 and A8053. But then again, P312 may have emerged more towards Austria while U106 more in northern Bohemia towards the south Baltic. The two do show up as quite separate groups speaking different variants of Indo-European. S1194 appears (to this project's admins) to have existed alongside eastern U106 (in sth Baltic vs western Jutland), and, for a long period was in a bottleneck (no pressure to expand). Again, this area of research is still ongoing.  What complicates our understanding of P312 & U106 & S1194 & A8053 actual origins, is that they are all brother clades currently given a similar estimated date of origin. At YFull this is 4,800 years ago, perhaps even as old as 5,100 YBP) but P312 today, vastly outnumbers U106 and both P312+U106 greatly outnumber S1194 which is really tiny in numbers. A8053 is even tinier than S1194. So, an S1194 bottleneck is one logical explanation for the vast disparity in current numbers alive today versus the understood common date of origin of the three brother mutations of os S1194 named P312/U106/S1194/A8053. 

The emergence of R1b-P312 & R1b-U106 & R1b-S1194 & R1b-A8053:

R1b-P312 dominates Western Europe and is most often associated with the name 'Celtic'. In the British Isles, P312 varies from roughly 80% to 20% with 80% in western Ireland.

R1b-U106 is much smaller in numbers than P312 and is mostly associated with Scandinavian/Germanic peoples. In the British Isles U106 varies from 30% to 5% and is strongest in eastern England dropping off as one heads west. It tends to be associated with Jutes/Angles/Saxons & Frisians moving over the channel to Britain in the period 450AD-600AD.

R1b-S1194 (like R1b-A8053) is tiny compared to its bother clades P312 & U106. It is associated with South Baltic / Germanic peoples. S1194 is < 0.05% in the British Isles  & found mostly in former English border regions. In the rest of europe S1194 is 'scattered'.  The below data came from an analysis carried out by a poster (MitchellSince1893) and helps show has spread out S1194 is in Europe. For S1194 ...

79 samples are presently found in the FTDNA database in the following locations (excluding UK, Ireland, and New World samples)

Germany: 28 (35%)
Netherlands: 16 (20%)
Sweden: 9 (11%)
Denmark: 6 (8%)
Belgium: 5 (6%)
Italy: 4 (5%)
Norway: 4 (5%)
Switzerland: 3 (4%)
Poland: 2 (3%)
France: 2 (3%)
Portugal: 1 (1%)
Austria: 1 (1%)
Czechia: 1 (1%)
Hungary: 1 (1%)

56% of these sample are from Germany & Netherlands
75% are from Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, and Denmark
89% are from Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Norway, and Poland.


At some point and place (more research needed) the four main R1b brother clades of R1b-P312 & R1b-U106, R1b-S1194 andR1b-A8053, mutated then evolved. This evolution is slowly showing up in data from ancient DNA burials and looking like they might have been linked to the Únětice Culture or the earlier Cordedware Culture. If it was earlier then a lot more evidence from more ancient burials is needed to show this as we don't have that evidence today. It is expected that as new ancient DNA finds occur, they will help clarify to an even finer degree, where the parent SNP of these 3 clades (R1b-L151) established itself. As of today, no ancient burials show R1b-L151 any further towards Samara (Pontic-Caspian Steppes) than north western Ukraine, southern Germany and Bohemia (other than a L11+ but P312- & U106- ancient burial at Csepel Island in Hungary labelled find # I7043).  Until L151 (or L11) Y-DNA is found closer to Samara or in the Carpathian Basin / Hungarian Plains, the fair assumption is that L11/L151 evolved in the Northern European Plains. As previously mentioned, there is some small evidence of L11/L151 in the Carpathian basin at Csepel Island Hungary, but more concrete research is needed to understand this find as it is enigmatic. Csepel Island was an ancient cross-roads and trading post and certain to have burials of people from other nearby trading areas.

Research projects are actively looking into the Hungarian Plains Kurgans to see what Y-DNA shows up.  We can expect to see new papers about them in 2019. Kurgans are typical Yamnaya burial mounds. By far the most of these Carpathian Kurgans are East of the Tisza river in eastern Hungary.  Some researchers believe these will only include other branches of Steppes Nomads (such as I2+ and R1b-Z2103 Y-DNA) but not R1b-L51 or the lower R1b-L11/L151 branches. There is an ongoing investigation of them and their contents but to-date still no L51 or L11/L151 other than the Csepel Island find labelled I7043.

R1b-P312 vs R1b-U106 burials showing a clear bronze age Nth/Sth split:  (This analysis came from 'citizen scientist' Richard Rocca). 


We at the S1194 FTDNA Project believe R1b-S1194 were among the R1b-U106 peoples and not part of R1b-P312 groups until much later on (i.e. not until the historic migration period of the Scandinavian/Germanic tribes from the Sth Baltic. Note in the above map that the R1b-L11/L151 burial I7043 shown in Hungary is the one at Csepel Island - a Bronze Age crossroads and trading post. This raises the question as to if this particular burial is of an R1b-L11lL151 trader who came from the Bohemia region shown above or from the Rhine then Danube (see the two other burials in the Czech Republic).  There is the possibility that R1b-U106 emerged in middle Germany or near the Sth Baltic. We need more finds to help clarify this issue. 

So where is the oldest R1b-S1194 ancient DNA find ?: 

Unfortunately we simply don't know. Our guess is they will start to show up between the region of the Únětice culture in Bohemia, and the Sth Baltic, when found. But this is only an 'educated' guess. As of October 2019 we don't have any provable ancient burials in middle Europe, for R1b-S1194. In 2017 & 2018 we had some 'false alarms'.   As at October 2019 the oldest known S1194 burials are 2 people dating to the middle ages, found in the Faroe Islands and reported in a 2019 paper titled 'Population genomics of the Viking world (bioxiv, 2019, Copenhagen)' and listing the 2 finds under VK25 & VK234.

R1b-P312 & Hallstatt / La Tene.  R1b-U106 and Jutland.  R1b-S1194 + R1b-A8053 and the Sth Baltic.




It has been published that R1b-P312 had reached Britain as Bell Beaker peoples around 2,500BC (Olalde et al 2018), prior to this new publication R1b-P312 had been thought of as originating and expanded from the Hallstatt & La Tene Culture regions in the areas of Austria and Switzerland. Of the R1b-P312 branches,  L21 shows up in the UK, DF27 shows up in the Atlantic coast & Iberia - Another branch shows up in Italy (R1b-U152).  Other branches (DF19 & ZZ337) also appear in other parts of Europe. The name Celtic tends to be associated with R1b-P312 but there were tribes of R1b-P312 DNA people who were clearly not part of known Celtic cultures.  However as a generalization 'Celtic' is a reasonable label to describe them to help keep definitions simple.  The evidence surrounding the Hallstatt & La Tene cultures show they occurred much later than the 2,500 BCE date for Bell Beaker (R1b-P312-L21) sweeping into Britain.

It is also likely that R1b-U106 consolidated then expanded out from the base of the Jutland Peninsula and is strong in Friesland (Nth Netherlands & Nth West Germany). The land of the Jutland Peninsula right down to Hamburg, was, in the past, a part of Denmark until 1864. Today the top part of this previously Danish controlled area is called Schleswig and the lower part called Holstein. The Angles (of Anglo-Saxon origin) came from Sth Schleswig. Saxons came from Holstien & greater Frisia. R1b-U106 remains very strong in these same regions today. R1b-U106 is thought of as Scandinavian/Germanic. Today, R1b-U106 is particularly dense in the north of the Netherlands and also Northern Germany and particularly in the areas called Friesland / Frisia. Interestingly, the English language is believed to have more in common with old Frisian than with old Saxon. 

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Schleswig-Holstein#/media/File:Jutland_Peninsula_map.PNG

Just where R1b-S1194 became established and expanded from is still being determined but a 2010 study by N Myres et al, suggested three early places of origin in Europe/UK where L11* showed up. In 2010 S1124 was completely unknown so was called L11* which means L11 but without P312 and without U106. This is also written L11x(P312,U106) or L11(xP312,xU106). One region identified my Myres et al., was the Sth Baltic region, another was in England and the other was in a very small pocket the Sth Alps region .  The deep question here is which of these three places might R1b-S1194 have expanded out of to reach the others. It is obvious S1194 did not spontaneously occur in all of them. Different people have different views on this issue. One view suggests the Sth Alps pocket were later tribal migrations from the Sth Baltic in line with known historical narratives. We know that there was a period of Scandinavian/Germanic migration/invasion from Jutland & East Denmark into Europe in the post Roman era, and later into England in the Scandinavian/Viking era 850AD-1100AD However the question is not settled to everyone's satisfaction. One good possibility for S1194 in UK is based on the Danish invasion of England by King Sweyn in 1013AD, consolidated by his son Canute (Knud) in 1018AD.  Canute was for a time the king of England and a large part of Scandinavia (this included Western Norway and Skaane (now part of Sth Sweden).

The more data that comes to hand, the better we will be able to refine the points of origin and expansion for S1194.  Until better evidence emerges, this project team accepts the Sth Baltic as the probable initial point of expansion to the other known and emerging hot-spots.  Two other regions are showing up in addition to the three in the N.Myres et al., report.  One is in the Rhine Valley region (close to Stuttgart) and Brabbant in the Netherlands.  Both of those areas feature in known historical narratives for Scandinavian/Germanic migrations/invasions. It is fair to say some people think the Netherlands may have been the origin of R1b-S1194 however this is just one opinion among several and as of today is lacking any known historical narrative that explains how S1194 reached the other 'hot-spots'.  There are also no ancient burial finds (yet) that support this.

Did R1b-P312 + R1b-U106 + R1b-S1194 originate in the Northern Plains of Europe ?. (Feb 2019).

Northern European Plains area: 

See  http://www.s1194.org/Images/files/NthEuroPlains.jpg

The cultures that shaped us as admixtures of GAC + CW + Yamnaya: 

See http://www.s1194.org/Images/files/GAC_CW_Cultures.jpg

And a reminder of the later Únětice culture:

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

This possibility of a Northern European Plains origin is considered more real today (in 2019) by researchers who keep pointing out the lack of R1b-L51 & L11 sub-clade burial finds showing up anywhere East of the Ukraine & Poland & Bohemia (outside the Northern European Plains). There was a period where some of us wondered if ancient DNA research into the Kurgan burials in the Hungarian plains, might finally reveal P312 / U106 or S1195 traces. But, no. Thus far the ancient DNA Yamnaya finds in Hungary are either I Y-DNA or R1b-Z2103 which is a brother clade to L51.  Z2103 does show up around Hungary and the Balkans to the East.  Current data suggests that the Yamnaya migration that went into the Hungarian Plains were a separate group that did not include L51 / L11/L151 but did include Z2103.  It is entirely possible that L51 / L11/L151 arrived in Europe travelling north of the Carpathian mountains in a completely separate migration.  Here we lean towards L11/L151 in particular, arriving north of the Carpathian mountains but today, this is only our opinion. This issue is being very actively investigated in 2019.  See again the view of L23 & its two main sub-clades of L51 & Z2103 here:  


restated, Z2103 burials are being found in the Hungarian Plains kurgans but, L51 / L11/L151 burials are not yet showing up there. As always this is work in progress.


S1194 Group: Jan 2018.
Family Tree DNA are nearing completion of their upgrade to Human Reference Genome 38, which has involved providing more detail on BigY tests. Currently this detail isn't being used to its full advantage. To properly investigate this data, James Kane, Alex Williamson and Iain McDonald have set up a data repository, to which they are asking any willing persons within R-S1194 to upload the raw VCF/BED data from their next-generation sequencing tests (BigY, YElite, WGS, etc.):
Please visit this link = http://www.haplogroup-r.org/submit_data.php
Instructions and a description of how we agree to use your data are available on the above website. If you are unable to follow these instructions, use the instructions on Iain McDonald's website. 
We would also ask that Full Genomes Corp. testers re-submit their YElite/WGS data once a Build 38 version becomes available.

This database is already collecting data on R-P312 and R-U106 testers. Incorporating data from R-S1194 testers will allow us to compare the three main branches of R-L11 to each other in an unbiased way.

While we are in earliest stages of this analysis now, ultimately, we hope this will allow us to systematically explore R-S1194 in proper context with R-P312 and R-U106 in a relatively unbiased way, answering questions such as: "Do branches of R-S1194 share the same distributions as branches of R-U106?", and "Which branches of R-S1194 formed at the same time as branches of R-P312?".

James Kane:                http://www.haplogroup-r.org/
Alex Williamson:           http://ytree.net/
Iain McDonald:             http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics.html
Doug Marker:               https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/df100-cts4528-l11-p310-l151-p311/about/background


11 Jan 2015:

The project is making good progress on establishing the best tests to take in order to get a clearer picture of where in the growing DF100/CTS4528 tree we fit.  You are invited to join our facebook forum here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/southbalticdna/   -  Title: South Baltic DNA - L11/P310/P311/L151

The FB group is for sharing information with other 'rare DNA' members and most of us are DF100/CTS4528. We have members who administer other projects and in particular a member who handles DF100/CTS4528 for both ISOGG and the ftDNA Ht35 project.

This month Jan, we have begun creating a list of tests DF100/CTS4528 people can take to help them find where they belong in our emerging tree. We are also working on a future project to correlate known old family names to areas of probability of origin in UK, Holland, Sth Baltic areas (Denmark, Sweden, Germany & Poland) plus Sth Italian Alps). 

You are also welcome to look at our repository of useful information here: 


17 Nov 2014: 

At this time it has become pretty well apparent that if a person is + for either one of DF100 or CTS4528 then both *can be assumed*.  If at a future time someone emerges who is negative for one but not the other then we may again request that both tests be taken but for now, doing both tests as add-ons becomes an unnecessary cost, however, if some wants to buy both they are welcome to do so.  In time it is assumed that newer testing chips will fix the discrepancy where only one or the other is tested (i.e. as is the case with the NatGeo Genome2 test which tests for CTS4528 but not for DF100).  Big-Y does test for both.

This diagram comes from the HT35new project and is reproduced in part here (Just the CTS4528 DF100 part) with their kind permission.


16 Dec 2014: 

This is a link to some very useful research done on DF100/CTS4528 plus R1b in general, by Michael Maglio (of Origin Hunters). The link covers some recent interesting research on R1b DNA back-flow to the Lebanon area that strongly indicates how L11 (P311) DNA was more likely taken to those areas within  the past 1,000 years and that R1b Crusaders were the ones taking it there. Michael argues the case quite well, that L11 (P311) DNA that shows up in Armenia/Anatolia/Lebanon needs careful checking so as not to make the mistake of assuming this DNA has been in these places longer than it really was which runs the very strong risk of confusing the origins and historical migration of R1b into Europe from these areas in the near East. Michael uses STR variance to position people within their haplogroup and tells a very convincing story of where he sees R1b (and particularly in his earlier work - our DF100-CTS4528), originated and spread from around the South Baltic to near east and not necessarily the other way round.



Project Administrator.