S1194-CTS4528-A8039

All R1b-S1194 and lower sub-clades (CTS4528, A8039)
  • 106 members

About us

(Last updated 23rd January 2020 - admin).
(NOTE: The following data is always open to improvement and re-interpretation based on new discoveries and evolving information. Such changes are a certainty).

This project is a special focus project for the SNP S1194 and below (A8039, CTS4528/DF100, etc: ) .  If you are not positive for any of these SNPs or sub-SNPs, you should look for an alternate project that does focus on your terminal SNP or allocated Haplogroup.

The R1b-S1194 SNP is currently one of four branches that are estimated to have mutated from L151 approx 4800-5000 years ago somewhere in Northern Europe / Northern Russia. The four branches are R1b-P312, R1b-U106, R1b-S1194 (us) and R1b-A8053. These four Y-DNA lines make up the bulk of Western European Y-DNA. R1b-P312 and its many sub-branches are the dominant branch by far and the name 'Celtic' is most often associated with this Y-DNA line. R1b-U106 is much smaller than P312 and is associated with 'Scandinavian & Germanic' peoples.  R1b-S1194 (this project), shows evidence of association with 'South Baltic/Germanic' peoples. R1b-S1194 is very small by comparison to the other two already mentioned. R1b-A8053 is really very tiny but seems to show up in the same locations as R1b-S1194. These naming labels are very loose and merely a guide as to some positioning of the four Y-DNA lines.

The goal of the project is to, in time, trace the origins and migration paths of R1b-S1194 over the last 6,000 years or so. So, if you have any of these SNPs please feel free to join. As of 2020 we are getting surprisingly close to being able to establish a full migration path from a location near the Ural mountains north east of Kazan, where old R1b-L23 DNA can be found, through Russia to Western Europe. Just exactly where that path is is slowly emerging as more ancient DNA burials from Russia are located and analysed.


A very brief history of R1b-M269 and its impact on Europe:

This is a summary based on current knowledge as at the start of 2020. It is likely to change as more detailed information becomes available especially from on-going ancient DNA discoveries in Europe and north Russia. So, for those deeply interested, one history starting at R1b-M269 is covered well by Prof David Anthony in the below link to a recent update of his works - (at the linked to PDF document, See story 2 - pages 39-70). These views put forward by Prof Anthony are a good starting point. As always, expect details to change as newer data emerges. One view  put forward by Prof Anthony that still lacks supporting evidence is that R1b-P312 (and thus R1b-U106 + R1b-S1194 + R1b-A8053) arrived in Europe via the Hungarian Plains (Carpathian Basin) as part of the Yamnaya Steppes Nomads these people emerged from.  Prof Anthony has suggested that L11 (a parent of P312/U106/S1194/A8053 could be found in the Kurgan burials in the Hungarian Plains. So far not one has been found there or on the path between the Carpathian Basin and Samara where the Yamnaya emerged. The only aDNA on that path, thus far, only shows I2 DNA and R1b-Z2103 DNA (a different branch of R1b parallel to R1b-L51).  R1b-Z2103 with I2, seems to have arrived in the Hungarian Basin from the Samara Valley then stopped there with only very small traces of R1b-Z2103 showing up any further west of the plains such as an ancient find in in the  Vučedol Culture (Croatia). But, R1b-Z2103 can be seen today in the Balkans and Middle East with some small remaining Y-DNA lines in western Europe. L51, the brother branch to Z2103 is not being found here. Main Point:  R1b-L51 (cousin to R1b-Z2103) has *not* been found around Samara or between Samara and the Carpathian Basin (Hungarian Plains). There is recent news that L51 has been found near Kazan but we have to wait for more news on this. That is expected in early 2020.

https://www.academia.edu/35405459/Archaeology_and_Language_Why_Archaeologists_Care_About_the_Indo-European_Problem--in_European_Archaeology_as_Anthropology_Essays_in_Memory_of_Bernard_Wailes_ed_by_P.J._Crabtree_and_P._Bogucki


Below is a link to the Eupedia R1b phylogenetic tree. It includes R1b-M269 and is helpful as a reference as to where M269 fits into the total R1b picture.  The notations on this tree is not 100% up-to-date but the main purpose is to show that R1b-L51 & R1b-Z2103 are separate brother sub-clades of R1b-L23 which in turn is a sub-clade of R1b-M269.  It is also worth noting that R1b-L23 itself is separate (a brother branch) to the Armenian R1b-PF7562 branch. That Armenian branch was one of the very early splits from R1b-M269 and is thus one of the oldest R1b lines still located in a small regional area. Today R1b-PF7562 is dominant in Armenia. The clear implication regarding this is the both R1b-L23-Z2103 and R1b-PF7562 headed to the the Black Sea and to the Caucuses (Armenia).

See https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml  (Scroll down to the tree).


R1b-M269, from the Pontic/Caspian Steppes to the Sth Baltic and elsewhere:

(Several of the following diagrams are the work of Edward Peggler who runs his own blog site called 'Armchair Prehistory' ...

Edward has granted us permission to to link to his diagrams and to reuse extracts of his notes. (Please do not copy or link to them without his permission). We chose his diagrams because they convey very clear meanings in an uncomplicated way.  His diagrams and details are good enough to use in our story.

Some believe our story begins with the Yamnaya Culture (3300-2800 BCE) which had been preceded by the Khvalynsk culture (1st half of the 5th Millenium BCE) around Samara Russia. Khvalynsk was in turn preceded by the Samara Culture and likely the Kama Culture before that.  The newer opf these cultures show autosomal DNA links to the later European Cordedware culture (c. 2900-2200 BCE). As of mid-2019, there are serious questions being raised as to if our branch, the R1b-L151 line (immediate parent of P312-U106-S1194-A8053) was already in northern Europe *before* the Yamnaya (now regarded as R1b-Z2103 & I2) fully settled the Pontic Caspian Steppes.  This is an evolving story it may take months to resolve and depend on some new 2020 publications on ancient DNA finds. 2020 is the year we expect to get some definitive answers to this.

Yamnaya origins: Samara Valley Russia  (up above Volgograd (former Stalingrad)). It is believed (W. Haak 2015 et al), that groups of Yamnaya (if this name remains valid) with R1b DNA, migrated in multiple waves into surrounding regions. In this project, we are particularly interested in any groups, and even earlier groups, that migrated to central, western and northern Europe as we know that one of these groups carried our parent line of R1b-L23-L51-L151 DNA. Other migrating groups from the Kazan/Samara region also carried the R1a line that include (among many), the Slavic, Balto-Slavic & Uralic peoples, into Europe. Some R1a Y-DNA groups moved into others parts of Asia including what is today Turkey, Iran and northern India.  While the Cordedware culture had been thought of, up until 2019, as dominated by R1a, it is now being shown (later 2019) that R1b is also in Cordedware context burials. It is also being explored as to if R1b reached northern Europe 1st or R1a reached there 1st or perhaps more likely they arrived at similar times. The connection of R1b to Cordedware now exists but just where and when is still being clarified. In late 2019 a new publication from Alissa Mettnik et al., (who published the 2018 paper 'The genetic prehistory of the Baltic Sea region'). was released that  provided more clarity on the inclusion of R1b-P312 in association with Cordedware context burials.

It is now believed in some research circles, that the R1b migration into Europe that begat P312/U106/S1194/A8053 likely occurred around 2,800-3,000 BCE. Then around 2,500 BCE, R1b-P312 in particular swept through Western Europe from the Netherlands into Britain and then in other directions around western Europe (France Italy then Spain). The recent (2018) study of Bell Beakers by Olalde et al., makes a case for Bell Beaker R1b-P312 (often referred to as 'Celts') arriving in Britain around 2,500 BCE where they displaced the pre-existing WHG & EEF Y-DNA by an estimated 90% within 200 years.   January 2020 NOTE:  Several citizen scientists with excellent credentials are arguing that R1b-L51 or R1b-L51-L151 were already in northern Europe before or around 3,000 BCE. This is an evolving story. The estimated mutation date for L151 sub-clades is around 4,800-5,000 years ago that could really only mean 2 things: 1) L151 predates *any* Yamnaya arrival in central Europe  or the mutation happened back in Kazan/Samara with no as yet L51 finds around there. As time passes option 2 looks weaker. L51 is now expected to show up in north Russia with sub-clades emerging in Belorus or the Ukraine or also close by in north Russia. Recent DNA blog discussions suggest L51 has been found near Kazan Russia in a Volosovo Culture context. Papers on this possibility are anticipated in early 2020. If this is confirmed it opens up entirely new possibilities that will clearly exclude a Yamnaya Steppes Nomads origin. 

Current thinking suggests that a group of people called the 'Central European Bell Beaker (BB)' peoples emerged within or adjacent to the western end of the Cordedware Culture.  Then BB later swept into many parts of Europe. As of today Central Bell Beaker are dominantly from P312 burials. Some R1b-Z2103 BB may also emerge in a BB context. New publications in 2020 will hopefully expand on this.

See https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/arrival-of-beaker-folk-changed-britain-forever-ancient-dna-study-shows 

There isn't really clear evidence yet as to why and how this rapid re-populating of western Europe and Britain happened.  Some thoughts on this include the following ... It may have been as a result of a pandemic affecting the existing population of UK & western plus central Europe. See https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/dec/06/earliest-plague-strain-found-in-sweden-holds-clue-to-stone-age-migration-from-east -  the change may have been by conquest (the arriving R1b-P312 Bell Beaker peoples were a warrior race) but there are some reasons to question this line of thought i.e. is it really possible for a band of P312 to sweep the majority of European and British WHG/EEF Y-DNA away in just 200-500 years? (between approximately 2800BCE and 2300BCE).  We think other reasons need to be considered but it remains a possibility. There are many known periods where the climate of the region (esp the Nth Sea) was severely impacted by weather & by seaborne inundations e.g. for some later major events See  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_transgression

Anyone who has spent time in Friesland & Jutland knows very well how low lying it all is and how swampy it is and has been.  There are and were places in JUltand where a person can travel by boat between the Baltic Sea to the North Sea.

Such weather changes could have and did have serious effects of farming and thus the people in Europe. However, the massive European population change that occurred between 2,900 BCE -2,200 BCE could also have been from any combination of the events just outlined. If it were to be shown that P312 expanded in the north Netherlands region then weather events may have favored their rapid expansion from this region.

Simplified overview of Yamnaya movement: (click link for image)

http://armchairprehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/pie-anthony.gif

The Yamnaya peoples themselves, were an admixture of WHG (Western Hunter Gatherers), EHG (Eastern Hunter Gatherers who in turn were an admixture that included WHG + ANE (Ancient North Eurasians)). Yamnaya also show admixture with CHG (Caucasus Hunter Gatherer). The R1 (incl R1a & R1b) Y-DNA line appears to have come from the ANE who were known to be in Siberia. The oldest R1 burial found to date is from Mal'ta in Siberia at 24,000 YBP. Ancient branches of R1 DNA are also found in an estimated 30% of North American Indian Tribes and believed to have reached America via the Bering Straits from Siberia.


7000 BCE - 3,000 BCE: Maps of known groups and the emergence of the Yamnaya 

WHG=Western Hunter Gatherers, EHG=Eastern Hunter Gatherers, CHG=Caucasus Hunter Gatherers, EEF=Early European Farmers.

(click below links for the maps)


WHG EHG & CHG - 7000BCE: 

http://armchairprehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/A7000-BC-gene-map-s.gif


EEF & EHG - 4000BCE:

http://armchairprehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/4000-BC-gene-map.gif


3000BCE:

http://armchairprehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/C3000-BC-gene-map-s.gif



The Steppes Nomads contribution to Cordedware Culture

Steppes nomad groups with mostly R1a Y-DNA, are said to be the core contributor/component of the Cordedware Culture based on burial finds up to 2019. The Cordedware culture spanned Germany/Bohemia and into Russia (through and well beyond Moscow). The Western end of the Cordedware culture appears to include R1b burials whereas the bulk of Cordedware region burials (spreading north east from Bohemia) are dominantly R1a Y-DNA with little to no R1b Y-DNA showing up (yet) outside today's Germany & Czech regions. Many researchers are still looking into why this split of R1a/R1b  shows up in the Western Cordedware edge as R1a tends to dominate elsewhere in Cordedware burials.  There is the possibility that R1b-L51 will show up more in cultures that existed along the Volga river. This area has not been fully explored as much as the Pontic Caspian Steppes region where R1b-Z2103 tends to be found. The is now serious doubt that L51 has *any* Steppes Nomads origin as the emerging evidence is that they got much of their DNA from the Kazan-Samara region and that L51 is the same.

http://armchairprehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/D2000-BC-gene-map-s-1.gif 

At the western End of the Cordedware Culture a later highly influential culture emerged called the Únětice Culture centered in Bohemia. Today that area is covered by both Czech Republic and Slovakia plus parts of adjacent countries (incl: Poland, Germany & Ukraine). There is some evidence emerging in ancient DNA burials suggesting this region could have been a concentration point for P312. The two lines of P312 and U106 do show up as quite separate groups speaking different variants of Indo-European. S1194 appears (to this project's admins) to have existed alongside eastern U106 (in sth Baltic vs western Jutland), and, for a long period was in a bottleneck (no pressure to expand), perhaps on a Baltic Island. Again, this area of research is still ongoing.  It may be that P312 migrated into the Bohemia region. What complicates our understanding of P312 & U106 & S1194 & A8053 actual origins, is that they are all brother clades currently given a similar estimated date of origin. At YFull this is 4,800 years ago, perhaps even as old as 5,100 YBP) but P312 today, vastly outnumbers U106 and both P312+U106 greatly outnumber S1194 which is really tiny in numbers. A8053 is even tinier than S1194. So, an S1194 bottleneck is one logical explanation for the vast disparity in current numbers alive today versus the understood common date of origin of the three brother mutations. 


The emergence of R1b-P312 & R1b-U106 & R1b-S1194 & R1b-A8053:

R1b-P312 dominates Western Europe and is most often associated with the name 'Celtic'. In the British Isles, P312 varies from roughly 80% to 20% with 80% in western Ireland.

R1b-U106 is much smaller in numbers than P312 and is mostly associated with Scandinavian/Germanic peoples. In the British Isles U106 varies from 30% to 5% and is strongest in eastern England dropping off as one heads west towards the far side of Britain. U106 tends to be associated with Jutes/Angles/Saxons & Frisians (the Romans called them Ingaevones) moving over the channel to Britain in the period 450AD-600AD. Obviously there would have been some I1 and R1a DNA among these Ingvaeones.

R1b-S1194 (like R1b-A8053) is tiny compared to its bother clades P312 & U106. It is associated with South Baltic / Germanic peoples. S1194 is < 0.05% in the British Isles  & found mostly in former English border regions. In the rest of Europe S1194 is 'scattered'.  The below data came from an analysis carried out by a citizen scientist at Anthrogenica  (MitchellSince1893) and helps show how spread out S1194 is in Europe. For S1194 ...

(Late 2019) 79 samples are presently found in the FTDNA database in the following locations (excluding UK, Ireland, and New World samples)

Germany: 28 (35%), Netherlands: 16 (20%), Sweden: 9 (11%), Denmark: 6 (8%), Belgium: 5 (6%), Italy: 4 (5%), Norway: 4 (5%)
Switzerland: 3 (4%), Poland: 2 (3%), France: 2 (3%), Portugal: 1 (1%), Austria: 1 (1%), Czechia: 1 (1%), Hungary: 1 (1%).

56% of these sample are from Germany & Netherlands

75% are from Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, and Denmark
89% are from Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Norway, and Poland.

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At some point and place (more research needed) the four main R1b brother clades of R1b-P312 & R1b-U106, R1b-S1194 andR1b-A8053, mutated then evolved. This evolution is slowly showing up in data from ancient DNA burials and some P312 are looking like they might have been linked to the Únětice Culture but clearly from the earlier Cordedware Culture. If it was earlier then more evidence from more ancient burials is needed to show this as we don't have that evidence today. It is expected that as new ancient DNA finds occur, they will help clarify to an even finer degree, where the parent SNP of these 3 clades (R1b-L151) established itself. As of today, no ancient burials show R1b-L151 any further towards Samara (Pontic-Caspian Steppes) than north western Ukraine, southern Germany and Bohemia (other than a L11+ but P312- & U106- ancient burial at Csepel Island in Hungary labelled find # I7043).  Until L151 (or L11) Y-DNA is found closer to Samara or in the Carpathian Basin / Hungarian Plains, a fair assumption is that L11/L151 evolved in the Northern European Plains. As previously mentioned, there is some small evidence of L11/L151 in the Carpathian basin at Csepel Island Hungary, but more concrete research is needed to understand this find as it is enigmatic. Csepel Island was an ancient cross-roads and trading post and certain to have burials of people from other nearby trading areas.

Research projects are actively looking into the Hungarian Plains Kurgans to see what Y-DNA shows up.  We can expect to see new papers about them in 2020. Kurgans are typical Yamnaya burial mounds. By far the most of these Carpathian Kurgans are East of the Tisza river in eastern Hungary.  Some researchers believe these will only include other branches of Steppes Nomads (such as I2+ and R1b-Z2103 Y-DNA) but not R1b-L51 or the R1b-L11/L151 branches. There is an ongoing investigation of them and their contents but to-date still no L51 or L11/L151 other than the Csepel Island find labelled I7043.

R1b-P312 vs R1b-U106 burials showing a clear bronze age Nth/Sth split:  (This analysis came from 'citizen scientist' Richard Rocca). 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1RGQV96ErhMg29ydPzWbW8DFfPdeE8v9C&ll=49.94185809129349%2C-1.2287218813476102&z=4&fbclid=IwAR1lkL8FXrNLwN9nkgDCS2A_JuVQSLkfGg_i2BS_DJrsdS9OY0p61JzLeV4

We at the S1194 FTDNA Project believe R1b-S1194 were among the R1b-U106 peoples and not part of R1b-P312 groups until much later on (i.e. not until the historic migration period of the Scandinavian/Germanic tribes from the Sth Baltic. Note in the above map that the R1b-L11/L151 burial I7043 shown in Hungary is the one at Csepel Island - a Bronze Age crossroads and trading post. This raises the question as to if this particular burial is of an R1b-L11-L151 trader who came from the Bohemia region shown above or from the Rhine then Danube (see the two other burials in the Czech Republic).  There is the possibility that R1b-U106 initially emerged near the east or south Baltic. We need more finds to help clarify this issue. 

So where is the oldest R1b-S1194 ancient DNA find ?: 

As of 2019 there are 2 burials (brothers) located on the Faroe Islands (Denmark). But our guess is they will start to show up in Scandinavia and the Sth Baltic, when found. But this is only an 'educated' guess. As of October 2019 we don't have any provable ancient burials in middle Europe, for R1b-S1194. In 2017 & 2018 we had some 'false alarms'.   So, as at October 2019 the oldest known S1194 burials are the 2 brothers dating to the middle ages, found in the Faroe Islands and reported in a 2019 paper titled 'Population genomics of the Viking world (bioxiv, 2019, Copenhagen)' and listing the 2 finds as VK25 & VK234. They are S1194-A8039.  


R1b-P312 & Hallstatt / La Tene.  R1b-U106 and Jutland.  R1b-S1194 + R1b-A8053 and the Sth Baltic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture#/media/File:Hallstatt_LaTene.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_T%C3%A8ne_culture#/media/File:Hallstatt.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

It has been published that R1b-P312 had reached Britain as Bell Beaker peoples around 2,500BC (Olalde et al 2018), prior to this new publication R1b-P312 had been thought of as originating and expanded from the Hallstatt & La Tene Culture regions in the areas of Austria and Switzerland. Of the R1b-P312 branches,  L21 shows up in the UK, DF27 shows up in the Atlantic coast & Iberia - Another branch shows up in Italy (R1b-U152).  Other branches (DF19 & ZZ337) also appear in other parts of Europe. The name Celtic tends to be associated with R1b-P312 but there were tribes of R1b-P312 DNA people who were clearly not part of known Celtic cultures.  However as a generalization 'Celtic' is a reasonable label to describe them to help keep definitions simple.  The evidence surrounding the Hallstatt & La Tene cultures show they occurred much later than the 2,500 BCE date for Bell Beaker (R1b-P312-L21) sweeping into Britain.

It is also likely that R1b-U106 consolidated then expanded out from the base of the Jutland Peninsula and is strong in Friesland (Nth Netherlands & Nth West Germany). The land of the Jutland Peninsula right down to Hamburg, was, in the past, a part of Denmark until 1864. Today the top part of this previously Danish controlled area is called Schleswig and the lower part called Holstein. The Angles (of Anglo-Saxon origin) came from Sth Schleswig. Saxons came from Holstien & greater Frisia. R1b-U106 remains very strong in these same regions today. R1b-U106 is thought of as Scandinavian/Germanic. Today, R1b-U106 is particularly dense in the north of the Netherlands and also Northern Germany and particularly in the areas called Friesland / Frisia. Interestingly, the English language is believed to have more in common with old Frisian than with old Saxon. 

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Schleswig-Holstein#/media/File:Jutland_Peninsula_map.PNG


Just where R1b-S1194 became established and expanded from is still being determined but a 2010 study by N Myres et al, suggested three early places of origin in Europe/UK where L11* showed up. In 2010 S1124 was completely unknown so was called L11* which means L11 but without P312 and without U106. This is also written L11x(P312,U106) or L11(xP312,xU106). One region identified my Myres et al., was the Sth Baltic region, another was in England and the other was in a very small pocket the Sth Alps region .  The deep question here is which of these three places might R1b-S1194 have expanded out of to reach the others. It is obvious S1194 did not spontaneously occur in all of them. Different people have different views on this issue. One view suggests the Sth Alps pocket were later tribal migrations from the Sth Baltic in line with known historical narratives. We know that there was a period of Scandinavian/Germanic migration/invasion from Jutland & East Denmark into Europe in the post Roman era, and later into England in the Scandinavian/Viking era 850AD-1100AD However the question is not settled to everyone's satisfaction. One good possibility for S1194 in UK is based on the Danish invasion of England by King Sweyn in 1013AD, consolidated by his son Canute (Knud) in 1018AD.  Canute was for a time the king of England and a large part of Scandinavia (this included Western Norway and Skaane (now part of Sth Sweden).

The more data that comes to hand, the better we will be able to refine the points of origin and expansion for S1194.  Until better evidence emerges, this project team accepts the Sth Baltic as the probable initial point of expansion to the other known and emerging hot-spots.  Two other regions are showing up in addition to the three in the N.Myres et al., report.  One is in the Rhine Valley region (close to Stuttgart) and Brabbant in the Netherlands.  Both of those areas feature in known historical narratives for Scandinavian/Germanic migrations/invasions. It is fair to say some people think the Netherlands may have been the origin of R1b-S1194 however this is just one opinion among several and as of today is lacking any known historical narrative that explains how S1194 reached the other 'hot-spots'.  There are also no ancient burial finds (yet) that support this.


Did R1b-P312 + R1b-U106 + R1b-S1194 originate in the Northern Plains of Europe ?. (Feb 2019).

Northern European Plains area: 

See  http://www.s1194.org/Images/files/NthEuroPlains.jpg

The cultures that shaped us as admixtures of GAC + CW + Yamnaya (now in grave doubt): 

See http://www.s1194.org/Images/files/GAC_CW_Cultures.jpg

And a reminder of the later Únětice culture:

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture

This possibility of a Northern European Plains origin is considered more real today (in 2019/2020) by researchers who keep pointing out the lack of R1b-L51 & L11 sub-clade burial finds showing up anywhere East of the Ukraine & Poland & Bohemia (outside the Northern European Plains). There was a period where some of us wondered if ancient DNA research into the Kurgan burials in the Hungarian plains, might finally reveal L11 (parent of P312 / U106 or S1194). But, no. Thus far the ancient DNA Yamnaya finds in Hungary are either I2 Y-DNA or R1b-Z2103 which is a brother clade to L51.  Z2103 does show up around Hungary and the Balkans to the East.  Current data suggests that the Yamnaya migration that went into the Hungarian Plains were a separate group that did not include L51 / L11 / L151 but did include Z2103.  It is entirely possible that L51 / L11 / L151 arrived in Europe travelling north of the Carpathian mountains in a completely separate migration, over time and *not* derived from the Yamnaya in the Pontic Caspian Steppes.  Here we lean towards L11/L151 in particular, arriving north of the Carpathian mountains through northern Russia but today, this is only our opinion. This issue is being very actively investigated in 2019/2020.  See again the view of L23 & its two main sub-clades of L51 & Z2103 here:  

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml 

Main Point: Z2103 burials are being found in the Hungarian Plains kurgans but, L51 / L11/L151 burials are not yet showing up there. As always this is work in progress.

January 2020.


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S1194 Group: Jan 2018.
Family Tree DNA are nearing completion of their upgrade to Human Reference Genome 38, which has involved providing more detail on BigY tests. Currently this detail isn't being used to its full advantage. To properly investigate this data, James Kane, Alex Williamson and Iain McDonald have set up a data repository, to which they are asking any willing persons within R-S1194 to upload the raw VCF/BED data from their next-generation sequencing tests (BigY, YElite, WGS, etc.):
Please visit this link = http://www.haplogroup-r.org/submit_data.php
Instructions and a description of how we agree to use your data are available on the above website. If you are unable to follow these instructions, use the instructions on Iain McDonald's website. 
http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/instructions.html
We would also ask that Full Genomes Corp. testers re-submit their YElite/WGS data once a Build 38 version becomes available.

This database is already collecting data on R-P312 and R-U106 testers. Incorporating data from R-S1194 testers will allow us to compare the three main branches of R-L11 to each other in an unbiased way.

While we are in earliest stages of this analysis now, ultimately, we hope this will allow us to systematically explore R-S1194 in proper context with R-P312 and R-U106 in a relatively unbiased way, answering questions such as: "Do branches of R-S1194 share the same distributions as branches of R-U106?", and "Which branches of R-S1194 formed at the same time as branches of R-P312?".

James Kane:                http://www.haplogroup-r.org/
Alex Williamson:           http://ytree.net/
Iain McDonald:             http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics.html
Doug Marker:               https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/df100-cts4528-l11-p310-l151-p311/about/background

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11 Jan 2015:

The project is making good progress on establishing the best tests to take in order to get a clearer picture of where in the growing DF100/CTS4528 tree we fit.  You are invited to join our facebook forum here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/southbalticdna/   -  Title: South Baltic DNA - L11/P310/P311/L151

The FB group is for sharing information with other 'rare DNA' members and most of us are DF100/CTS4528. We have members who administer other projects and in particular a member who handles DF100/CTS4528 for both ISOGG and the ftDNA Ht35 project.

This month Jan, we have begun creating a list of tests DF100/CTS4528 people can take to help them find where they belong in our emerging tree. We are also working on a future project to correlate known old family names to areas of probability of origin in UK, Holland, Sth Baltic areas (Denmark, Sweden, Germany & Poland) plus Sth Italian Alps). 

You are also welcome to look at our repository of useful information here: 

http://www.southbalticmodalhaplotype.org/


17 Nov 2014: 

At this time it has become pretty well apparent that if a person is + for either one of DF100 or CTS4528 then both *can be assumed*.  If at a future time someone emerges who is negative for one but not the other then we may again request that both tests be taken but for now, doing both tests as add-ons becomes an unnecessary cost, however, if some wants to buy both they are welcome to do so.  In time it is assumed that newer testing chips will fix the discrepancy where only one or the other is tested (i.e. as is the case with the NatGeo Genome2 test which tests for CTS4528 but not for DF100).  Big-Y does test for both.

This diagram comes from the HT35new project and is reproduced in part here (Just the CTS4528 DF100 part) with their kind permission.

http://www.cts4528.org/Maps-Diags/files/cts4528b.jpg

16 Dec 2014: 

This is a link to some very useful research done on DF100/CTS4528 plus R1b in general, by Michael Maglio (of Origin Hunters). The link covers some recent interesting research on R1b DNA back-flow to the Lebanon area that strongly indicates how L11 (P311) DNA was more likely taken to those areas within  the past 1,000 years and that R1b Crusaders were the ones taking it there. Michael argues the case quite well, that L11 (P311) DNA that shows up in Armenia/Anatolia/Lebanon needs careful checking so as not to make the mistake of assuming this DNA has been in these places longer than it really was which runs the very strong risk of confusing the origins and historical migration of R1b into Europe from these areas in the near East. Michael uses STR variance to position people within their haplogroup and tells a very convincing story of where he sees R1b (and particularly in his earlier work - our DF100-CTS4528), originated and spread from around the South Baltic to near east and not necessarily the other way round.

http://originhunters.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/atrocities-and-assimilation-crusader.html


Thankyou.

Project Administrator.