About us
August 27, 2007--We now have six participants in the KNARR-KNERR-KNORR DNA PROJECT. The mtDNA results section is now open to both males and females. Two participants have taken the mtDNA test on the maternal side. Five participants have submitted their Y-dna results on the paternal side. Thanks to all of you who have joined our project! We will try to double the size of our group by year's end. With more comparative results, we can better differentiate the family lines and test hypotheses.
August 26, 2007--We currently have five participants in the project. Today Needham #75171 joined. He is a descendant of a KNARR-NEEDHAM marriage, but of course does not have the Knarr surname. Needham's ancestor originated in the British Isles; his Y-dna signature at twelve markers can be placed tentatively somewhere between KNORR and KNARR. If you wonder why Needham's value at marker 439 is a blue 12, you can find a full explanation at www.familytreedna.com/public/null439/. According to the null439 DNA Project analysis, only about a half of one percent of R1b males carries what is known as the null439 SNP. If the Family Tree DNA report shows that you have an asterisk beside DYS439, then the folks at the Null439 project would welcome your participation in this special study. Leo W. Little is the administrator for the null439 DNA project. That project will track FamilyTreeDNA participants with blue 12s at DYS439. According to their website, "SNPs are inheritable, so every male who descends from a common ancestor with this type of SNP will have a null value for the marker...SNPs are passed down from father to son, and all males with null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last 5000 years."
August 25, 2007--There is a 4-step distance over the first twelve markers between KNARR 55035 AND KNORR N51923. Over these same twelve markers, we find that there is a 15-step difference between KNORR and the THOMAS JEFFERSON DNA profile [posted at ftdna]; a 13-step difference between KNARR and JEFFERSON. Therefore, we conclude that the genetic association between KNARR and KNORR is closer than either line is to JEFFERSON. Over the same twelve markers, there is a 5-step distance between either KNORR or KNARR and the DNA signature of the Irish NIALL OF THE NINE HOSTAGES, 5th century chieftain or warlord [see ftdna website]. Since we know that surnames such as CANNON and CONNOR/CONNER originated in Ireland about 1,000 years ago, it is of some interest to note parallelism in certain DNA profiles.
We find that there is ZERO DIFFERENCE over twelve markers between KNARR (55035 and 26251) and O'CONNOR (72257 in Conner Surname Project and N12172 in Ireland Heritage Y-DNA Project). Over 37 markers, between this O'CONNOR line and KNARR there exists a 13-step distance but 10 are identified to be in so-called volatile loci. There is a 1-step difference in the twelve markers between O'CONNOR N28232 and KNORR N51923. We find a 2-step difference between either KNORR or KNARR and CANNON 54122.
Last year I noted in Project News that such parallelism was worthy of note. As a working hypothesis, we will want definitely to consider the possibility of "deep" Irish ancestral roots in some of our family lines. CONNOR might have arrived circa 1500 A.D. in Switzerland. Legally, phonetically, logically,linguistically, such a surname would have been recorded as KNOR in the earliest German-Swiss legal records. That is what I discovered in the Solothurn Archives; namely, two brothers with the surname KNOR first appearing in the archival records circa 1500A.D. as purchasing some amount of wood.
August 24, 2007--We now have four participants in our group. For the first time in genetic testing history, we now can compare the Y-DNA profile of KNORR to KNARR. There is a significant difference at the 12-marker level: 8/12 match with overall genetic distance of 4 steps. Our two KNARR participants have Swiss German origins; the KNORR participant has ancestral origins in Germany. The recent results are now posted. As we grow our database, we will better understand differences among the family lines and the likely locales of origination.
April 13, 2006--Let's study some statistics. Since Warren and I are 4th cousins, we know with certainty that the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor [MRCA] is five generations. Between the two of us, we match 36 of 37 markers. According to the FTDNA's statistical charts, when there is a 36/37 match, there will be a 50% probability that the MRCA was no longer than four generations, a 90% probability that the MRCA was no longer than eight generations, and a 95% probability that the MRCA was no longer than ten generations. Therefore, our genetic results are in accord with statistical expectations. Our only different marker value was for 455 [10/11], and our respective sub-branches should reflect that mutational difference when more test results come in. As for Joe Ginorio and myself, we do not now know who the Most Recent Common Ancestor was. We have discovered that we match on all of the first twelve markers. When this happens, according to FTDNA statistical table, there is a 50% probability that the MRCA was no longer than seven generations; a 90% probability that the MRCA was no longer than 23 generations; and a 95% probability that the MRCA was no longer than 29 generations. Using 27 years as single generation, the calculated time span to MRCA then is 189 years (50%); 621 years (90%); and 783 years (95%). We can then calculate that MRCA took place between AD 1223 (95%) and AD 1375 (90%). That is in accord with our earlier estimate of AD 1100-1400. Just to reiterate an important point: That was the historical period in which surnames were evolving and differentiating. FTDNA statistical comparisons are affected by mutational rates of the different markers: Since each marker has a different mutation rate, identical Genetic Distances will not necessarily yield the same probabilities. In other words, even though Ginorio has a Genetic Distance of 13 at 37 markers from Knarr, someone else with the same Genetic Distance may have different probabilities, because the distance of 13 was prompted by mutations in different markers, with different mutation rates.
April 13, 2006--There appears to be striking parallelism between our group's allele values and many of those participating in the CONNOR-CONNER surname project. Whereas there is a total of 13-step difference over 37 markers between myself and Joe Ginorio, there exists a total of 15-step difference over same 37 markers between myself and Lawrence Conner, Kit 50785. See the interesting FTDNA article on "Niall of the Nine Hostages". According to a recent study conducted in Ireland, numerous Irish males and many modern surnames trace their ancestry to Niall. Among those surnames is CONNOR. It is also interesting to note the parallelism between the spelling and pronunciation of the surnames CONNOR and KNORR, CONNER and KNERR. The DNA signatures will give us clues to linkages and common ancestry. For the record, there is an eleven-step difference over 25 markers between myself and the apparent Ui Neill signature. The variance in allele values was never greater than one at any given marker. According to a scientific paper in FTDNA Library, "Y-Chromosome Variation and Irish Origins", surnames evolved in Ireland from about AD 950 as markers of complex local kinship systems. Ireland has a 9,000-year history of human habitation.
April 11, 2006--We have framed a hypothesis that can be tested through further Y-dna studies. KNARR ancestors may have originated in northern Italy, as did those of GINORIO. Ginori in Italy, as they migrated through Spain and on to Puerto Rico and eventually to United States, Cuba, Mexico and elsewhere, added an "o" to the surname root due to Spanish linguistic influence. And the "G" remained "soft" or almost silent as "H" in pronunciation. By contrast, as the Italian Ginori migrated north into German-speaking regions of Switzerland, the "G" became a "hard" G or K, and the "i" suffix was eventually dropped due to Germanic linguistic influence. I have found evidence in early Swiss parish archives where the latter phenomenon sometimes happened, i.e. the suffix "i" was dropped in the spelling. The original "o" became umlauted in German, and in some branches changed in America to an "e" or "a" as in KNERR/KNARR. Consistent with early forms of both surnames, "NOR" constitutes the core of the name, signifying the possible influence of the sea when the family name evolved. We will study and test those hypotheses that can clarify Y-paternal lineages for KNARR-KNERR-KNORR and variant related branches. For instance, should results reveal a deep genetic linkage between English-Scot-Irish CONNOR and Italian GINORI and German KNORR, we will be open to reviewing our data and hypotheses.
April 10, 2006--Warren Knarr has joined our group project. He and I are 4th cousins. Our common ancestor was Abraham KNERR (1781-1854), grandson to the immigrant Abraham KNERR. Comparing our allele values for twenty-five and thirty-seven markers, we are identical except for one-step difference at marker 455. Warren descends from Joshua Knarr, whereas my ancestor is Daniel. Joshua and Daniel were sons of Abraham KNERR (1781-1854).
April 10, 2006--Joe Ginorio's Y-DNA results reveal that his allele values for the first twelve markers are identical to those of the other two participants. Some variance exists through 25 and 37 markers. If we can establish a linkage between the Italian GINORI surname and the Swiss KNOERR, then it would follow that a common ancestor might have lived circa 1100 A.D.-1400 A.D. Before this time period, surnames were not in fashion. Based upon our archival research in Switzerland, we know that men with KNOR/KNOER surname started appearing in Bern/Solothurn region circa 1500 A.D. While keeping in mind that both surnames and Y-chromosomes are paternally inherited, we will need more male participants in our surname dna project from different branches and different countries to discover and establish genetic relationships between the branches.
November 22, 2004--The Y-DNA test results of our very first group member [Knarr] have been received & posted. These results for the twelve markers indicate a distinct 12-marker haplotype or DNA profile inasmuch as no one else in the FTDNA database with over twenty-five thousand records can currently match perfectly the twelve allele values. We of course need additional participants having the KNARR-KNERR-KNORR surname to substantiate our haplotype. In doing Y-Search of worldwide databases including Y-Base and Oxford, I found altogether three matches for all twelve alleles. One intriguing exact 12/12 match: GINORI-GINORIO of Italian origins. Joe Ginorio has informed me that this family can be documented in northern Italy, the Florence area, back to the year 1300. Additional testing of course will be desired to determine closeness of relationship at 25 and 37 markers. If our very close genetic relationship holds up under additional scrutiny and testing, we will have discovered a most significant clue. One possible hypothesis: KNOERI-GINORI was an Italian-speaking branch migrating southward from Switzerland into northern Italy, or the GINORI moved north out of Italy. My own German-speaking KNOERR branch [Abraham, 1741 immigrant] went north into Alsace from a German-speaking Swiss base centered in Bern-Solothurn region. Other branches moved out of Switzerland for various reasons into Germany or other parts of Europe. The first evidence of KNOERR in the Solothurn-Bern area are records circa 1500. At this time, we just don't know where the first Swiss KNOERs came from. Did they come from Germany or France, or did they possibly originate with the GINORI of Italy? By testing the Y-DNA of direct male descendents in the different trees [KNORR in Germany; KNOERR and KNOERI in Switzerland; GINORI in Italy], we will gain a better understanding of relationships, migratory paths and origins, particularly in Europe. My current understanding is that the KNOERI branch in Switzerland tended to live [1600-1800] in regions more adjacent to Italy than to Germany. Are there then genetic matches between Swiss KNOERI and Italian GINORI, and between KNOERI descendants & KNOERR descendants? Is there a genetic match between the descendants of the German KNORR families [dating back to 1200s] and the Swiss KNOERR [dating back to 1500s]? Or will there be a closer match between Swiss KNOERR-KNOERI and the Italian GINORI? We have only begun to think through the possibilities & ramifications of DNA testing and its implications for tracing our family genealogies and origins.
August 26, 2007--We currently have five participants in the project. Today Needham #75171 joined. He is a descendant of a KNARR-NEEDHAM marriage, but of course does not have the Knarr surname. Needham's ancestor originated in the British Isles; his Y-dna signature at twelve markers can be placed tentatively somewhere between KNORR and KNARR. If you wonder why Needham's value at marker 439 is a blue 12, you can find a full explanation at www.familytreedna.com/public/null439/. According to the null439 DNA Project analysis, only about a half of one percent of R1b males carries what is known as the null439 SNP. If the Family Tree DNA report shows that you have an asterisk beside DYS439, then the folks at the Null439 project would welcome your participation in this special study. Leo W. Little is the administrator for the null439 DNA project. That project will track FamilyTreeDNA participants with blue 12s at DYS439. According to their website, "SNPs are inheritable, so every male who descends from a common ancestor with this type of SNP will have a null value for the marker...SNPs are passed down from father to son, and all males with null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last 5000 years."
August 25, 2007--There is a 4-step distance over the first twelve markers between KNARR 55035 AND KNORR N51923. Over these same twelve markers, we find that there is a 15-step difference between KNORR and the THOMAS JEFFERSON DNA profile [posted at ftdna]; a 13-step difference between KNARR and JEFFERSON. Therefore, we conclude that the genetic association between KNARR and KNORR is closer than either line is to JEFFERSON. Over the same twelve markers, there is a 5-step distance between either KNORR or KNARR and the DNA signature of the Irish NIALL OF THE NINE HOSTAGES, 5th century chieftain or warlord [see ftdna website]. Since we know that surnames such as CANNON and CONNOR/CONNER originated in Ireland about 1,000 years ago, it is of some interest to note parallelism in certain DNA profiles.
We find that there is ZERO DIFFERENCE over twelve markers between KNARR (55035 and 26251) and O'CONNOR (72257 in Conner Surname Project and N12172 in Ireland Heritage Y-DNA Project). Over 37 markers, between this O'CONNOR line and KNARR there exists a 13-step distance but 10 are identified to be in so-called volatile loci. There is a 1-step difference in the twelve markers between O'CONNOR N28232 and KNORR N51923. We find a 2-step difference between either KNORR or KNARR and CANNON 54122.
Last year I noted in Project News that such parallelism was worthy of note. As a working hypothesis, we will want definitely to consider the possibility of "deep" Irish ancestral roots in some of our family lines. CONNOR might have arrived circa 1500 A.D. in Switzerland. Legally, phonetically, logically,linguistically, such a surname would have been recorded as KNOR in the earliest German-Swiss legal records. That is what I discovered in the Solothurn Archives; namely, two brothers with the surname KNOR first appearing in the archival records circa 1500A.D. as purchasing some amount of wood.
August 24, 2007--We now have four participants in our group. For the first time in genetic testing history, we now can compare the Y-DNA profile of KNORR to KNARR. There is a significant difference at the 12-marker level: 8/12 match with overall genetic distance of 4 steps. Our two KNARR participants have Swiss German origins; the KNORR participant has ancestral origins in Germany. The recent results are now posted. As we grow our database, we will better understand differences among the family lines and the likely locales of origination.
April 13, 2006--Let's study some statistics. Since Warren and I are 4th cousins, we know with certainty that the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor [MRCA] is five generations. Between the two of us, we match 36 of 37 markers. According to the FTDNA's statistical charts, when there is a 36/37 match, there will be a 50% probability that the MRCA was no longer than four generations, a 90% probability that the MRCA was no longer than eight generations, and a 95% probability that the MRCA was no longer than ten generations. Therefore, our genetic results are in accord with statistical expectations. Our only different marker value was for 455 [10/11], and our respective sub-branches should reflect that mutational difference when more test results come in. As for Joe Ginorio and myself, we do not now know who the Most Recent Common Ancestor was. We have discovered that we match on all of the first twelve markers. When this happens, according to FTDNA statistical table, there is a 50% probability that the MRCA was no longer than seven generations; a 90% probability that the MRCA was no longer than 23 generations; and a 95% probability that the MRCA was no longer than 29 generations. Using 27 years as single generation, the calculated time span to MRCA then is 189 years (50%); 621 years (90%); and 783 years (95%). We can then calculate that MRCA took place between AD 1223 (95%) and AD 1375 (90%). That is in accord with our earlier estimate of AD 1100-1400. Just to reiterate an important point: That was the historical period in which surnames were evolving and differentiating. FTDNA statistical comparisons are affected by mutational rates of the different markers: Since each marker has a different mutation rate, identical Genetic Distances will not necessarily yield the same probabilities. In other words, even though Ginorio has a Genetic Distance of 13 at 37 markers from Knarr, someone else with the same Genetic Distance may have different probabilities, because the distance of 13 was prompted by mutations in different markers, with different mutation rates.
April 13, 2006--There appears to be striking parallelism between our group's allele values and many of those participating in the CONNOR-CONNER surname project. Whereas there is a total of 13-step difference over 37 markers between myself and Joe Ginorio, there exists a total of 15-step difference over same 37 markers between myself and Lawrence Conner, Kit 50785. See the interesting FTDNA article on "Niall of the Nine Hostages". According to a recent study conducted in Ireland, numerous Irish males and many modern surnames trace their ancestry to Niall. Among those surnames is CONNOR. It is also interesting to note the parallelism between the spelling and pronunciation of the surnames CONNOR and KNORR, CONNER and KNERR. The DNA signatures will give us clues to linkages and common ancestry. For the record, there is an eleven-step difference over 25 markers between myself and the apparent Ui Neill signature. The variance in allele values was never greater than one at any given marker. According to a scientific paper in FTDNA Library, "Y-Chromosome Variation and Irish Origins", surnames evolved in Ireland from about AD 950 as markers of complex local kinship systems. Ireland has a 9,000-year history of human habitation.
April 11, 2006--We have framed a hypothesis that can be tested through further Y-dna studies. KNARR ancestors may have originated in northern Italy, as did those of GINORIO. Ginori in Italy, as they migrated through Spain and on to Puerto Rico and eventually to United States, Cuba, Mexico and elsewhere, added an "o" to the surname root due to Spanish linguistic influence. And the "G" remained "soft" or almost silent as "H" in pronunciation. By contrast, as the Italian Ginori migrated north into German-speaking regions of Switzerland, the "G" became a "hard" G or K, and the "i" suffix was eventually dropped due to Germanic linguistic influence. I have found evidence in early Swiss parish archives where the latter phenomenon sometimes happened, i.e. the suffix "i" was dropped in the spelling. The original "o" became umlauted in German, and in some branches changed in America to an "e" or "a" as in KNERR/KNARR. Consistent with early forms of both surnames, "NOR" constitutes the core of the name, signifying the possible influence of the sea when the family name evolved. We will study and test those hypotheses that can clarify Y-paternal lineages for KNARR-KNERR-KNORR and variant related branches. For instance, should results reveal a deep genetic linkage between English-Scot-Irish CONNOR and Italian GINORI and German KNORR, we will be open to reviewing our data and hypotheses.
April 10, 2006--Warren Knarr has joined our group project. He and I are 4th cousins. Our common ancestor was Abraham KNERR (1781-1854), grandson to the immigrant Abraham KNERR. Comparing our allele values for twenty-five and thirty-seven markers, we are identical except for one-step difference at marker 455. Warren descends from Joshua Knarr, whereas my ancestor is Daniel. Joshua and Daniel were sons of Abraham KNERR (1781-1854).
April 10, 2006--Joe Ginorio's Y-DNA results reveal that his allele values for the first twelve markers are identical to those of the other two participants. Some variance exists through 25 and 37 markers. If we can establish a linkage between the Italian GINORI surname and the Swiss KNOERR, then it would follow that a common ancestor might have lived circa 1100 A.D.-1400 A.D. Before this time period, surnames were not in fashion. Based upon our archival research in Switzerland, we know that men with KNOR/KNOER surname started appearing in Bern/Solothurn region circa 1500 A.D. While keeping in mind that both surnames and Y-chromosomes are paternally inherited, we will need more male participants in our surname dna project from different branches and different countries to discover and establish genetic relationships between the branches.
November 22, 2004--The Y-DNA test results of our very first group member [Knarr] have been received & posted. These results for the twelve markers indicate a distinct 12-marker haplotype or DNA profile inasmuch as no one else in the FTDNA database with over twenty-five thousand records can currently match perfectly the twelve allele values. We of course need additional participants having the KNARR-KNERR-KNORR surname to substantiate our haplotype. In doing Y-Search of worldwide databases including Y-Base and Oxford, I found altogether three matches for all twelve alleles. One intriguing exact 12/12 match: GINORI-GINORIO of Italian origins. Joe Ginorio has informed me that this family can be documented in northern Italy, the Florence area, back to the year 1300. Additional testing of course will be desired to determine closeness of relationship at 25 and 37 markers. If our very close genetic relationship holds up under additional scrutiny and testing, we will have discovered a most significant clue. One possible hypothesis: KNOERI-GINORI was an Italian-speaking branch migrating southward from Switzerland into northern Italy, or the GINORI moved north out of Italy. My own German-speaking KNOERR branch [Abraham, 1741 immigrant] went north into Alsace from a German-speaking Swiss base centered in Bern-Solothurn region. Other branches moved out of Switzerland for various reasons into Germany or other parts of Europe. The first evidence of KNOERR in the Solothurn-Bern area are records circa 1500. At this time, we just don't know where the first Swiss KNOERs came from. Did they come from Germany or France, or did they possibly originate with the GINORI of Italy? By testing the Y-DNA of direct male descendents in the different trees [KNORR in Germany; KNOERR and KNOERI in Switzerland; GINORI in Italy], we will gain a better understanding of relationships, migratory paths and origins, particularly in Europe. My current understanding is that the KNOERI branch in Switzerland tended to live [1600-1800] in regions more adjacent to Italy than to Germany. Are there then genetic matches between Swiss KNOERI and Italian GINORI, and between KNOERI descendants & KNOERR descendants? Is there a genetic match between the descendants of the German KNORR families [dating back to 1200s] and the Swiss KNOERR [dating back to 1500s]? Or will there be a closer match between Swiss KNOERR-KNOERI and the Italian GINORI? We have only begun to think through the possibilities & ramifications of DNA testing and its implications for tracing our family genealogies and origins.