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ANY NEW GUITTARD TESTER CAN IMMEDIATELY MATCH HIS OWN Y-DNA PROFILE AGAINST THE FOLLOWING GUITTARD PROFILES --
1. the Paris-New-Brunswick Guitard line from north central France,
2. the Alsace-Ohio Guittard line coming down from Bellemagny in the northeast corner of Alsace, France,
3. a Puy-de-Dome Guittard line (possibly tracing back to the famous Guittard Family Commune at Thiers) from a French citizen in Puy de Dome near Clermont-Ferrand in central France,
4. a second Puy-de-Dome Guittard line (tracing back to Larodde on the southwest side of Puy de Dome and possibly back to the famous Guittard Commune family),
5. a St. Louis Guittar line,
6. a Guitard (Guittar) test tracing back on the Saintonge-Montreal line on the western coast of central France,
7. a Guittard test from a French citizen born in Toulouse in southern France,
8. a Guitart test from a Spanish citizen in Spanish Catalonia (possibly tracing back to the famous Guitard nobles in Barcelona and Andorra), and
9. a New England Guittard test coming down from Bretten in the northeast corner of Alsace,
PLUS the Bronze Age Lichtenstein family burial cave I2b2 skeletons from 3,000 years ago that were found in northern Germany in 1980, and DNA-typed to the same I2b2 subclade as our Alsatian Guittards.
So please come on in, and help us build an informative and productive Y-DNA surname study for our geographically diverse Guittard families. We are now working to develop tests with other Guittard lines in France, Spain, Germany, the British Isles, and elsewhere in Europe, as well as other American immigrant Guittard lines.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 1: TWELVE 3,000-YEAR-OLD SKELETONS FOUND IN THE LICHTENSTEIN FAMILY BURIAL CAVE WITH BRONZE AGE ARTIFACTS NEAR DORSTE IN LOWER SAXONY, NORTH CENTRAL GERMANY, HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS THE SAME I2b2 SUBCLADE AS OUR ALSATIAN GUITTARDS. Apparently the Lichtenstein people and our Alsatian Guittards' ancestors of 3,000 years ago were at least DISTANT COUSINS. We are doing additional testing to explore the connection and find out more facts.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 2: OUR NEW ENGLAND GUITTARD COMING DOWN FROM BRETTEN, ALSACE, HAS TESTED AS N1 HAPLOGROUP. His Cullen subclade prediction is N3a1-Finn to a 78 % probability. His great-grandfather immigrated from Bretten to NYC in 1878. N is a central Asian lineage associated with Uralic-speaking cultures, which originated in Siberia about 10,000 years ago and spread west across northern Asia and northern Europe to the Finnic and Baltic countries. Today N is one of the most frequent haplogroups found in Scandinavian Europe. The question here is -- how did N1-Finn Guittards get to Bretten in Alsace just a few miles away from the I2b2 Alsatian Guittards in Bellemagny and Brechaumont?
BIG NEWS ITEM # 3: A Guitart in SPANISH CATALONIA has tested R1b1b2. We hope this test will help us ESTABLISH A DNA PROFILE FOR THE GUITARD NOBLE FAMILIES LIVING IN CATALONIA AND ANDORRA DURING THE 900'S AND 1000'S, and find whether the Catalonian Guitards are related to any of our French Guittard families. Our Guitart tester, a Spanish citizen living near the village of Cabo in Spanish Catalonia, appears ideally suited to help us identify the important profile coming down through the family of GUITARD ISARN DE CABOET in 1096 AD. We also hope this test will help us determine whether these SPANISH Catalonian Guitards could earlier have COME DOWN FROM FRANCE, perhaps when Charlemagne retook Spanish Catalonia from the Moors during the Spanish Reconquest in the 790's. His confirmed subclade is R1b1b2a, according to a deep clade SNP test. A second Catalonian Guitart test is needed to verify the profile.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 4: OUR PARIS-NEW-BRUNSWICK GUITARD (SINGLE-T) TESTER (who comes down from Francois the Dragoon's son Jacques) HAS MATCHED OUR ALSACE-OHIO GUITTARD (DOUBLE-T) TESTER. The haplogroup is I2b (possible Celt), and the match is surprisingly close -- 66 out of 67 markers.
We believe this match shows, in combination with conventional paper-records research, that THE ENORMOUS PARIS-NEW-BRUNSWICK GUITARD LINE PROBABLY CAME DOWN FROM THE ALSACE-OHIO GUITTARD LINE. Paris is about 160 miles west of Brechaumont. The FTDNA TiP report shows the Most Recent Common Ancestor for the two lines probably lived in the mid-1700's, when conventional research shows the Alsace-Ohio line was living in Brechaumont, Alsace. Before this match the leading family histories of Francois Guitard's Paris-New-Brunswick line could not trace back before Francois to prove and identify where his line came from before going to Paris.
A second Canadian Guitard on this Paris-New-Brunswick line in Ontario, who traces down from Cyrille, a different son of Francois the Dragoon, has now matched our Alsace-Ohio tester on 64 out of 67 markers.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 5: A GUITTARD TESTER BORN AND NOW LIVING IN PUY DE DOME IN FRANCE, HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS HAPLOGROUP R1b1b2a1b. His family having lived in the Puy de Dome vicinity as long as anyone can remember, he appears to be a suitable candidate to investigate the profile tracing back to the Guittards in the famous 12th-century Guittard Family Commune at Thiers in Puy de Dome. If his R1b1b2 test accurately reflects the profile coming down from the Guittard Family Commune, then clearly the Guittard Family Commune line from Puy de Dome is completely unrelated to the I2 Alsace-New-Brunswick Guittard line. A deep clade test confirms the tester's subclade as R1b1b2a1b -- the same as our second Puy de Dome Guittard tester and our Saintonge Guitard tester below.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 6: A GUITTARD LIVING IN CALIFORNIA HAS PROVIDED OUR SECOND PUY DE DOME TEST -- ALSO R1b1b2a1b, the same subclade as for our first Puy de Dome tester. His father was born in France and immigrated from Jonzac, and he traces his family back to Larodde in Puy de Dome from the 1500's to the 1800's -- on the southwest side of the same department as the historic Guittard Family Commune. The recalculated FTDNA TiP report shows that our two Puy de Dome testers share a Most Recent Common Ancestor to a 52% probability within the last 39 generations -- roughly 950 years ago - around 1050 AD. (Caveat: The recalculated TiP has been applied here beyond its normal and accepted range of 24 generations -- roughly 600 years -- in order to explore the range of these two powerful 67-marker tests in reaching back to the 12th-century commune profile. The as-yet-unproved assumption is that the markers mutated about the same rate before 1400 AD as they have since 1400 AD.)
So we are cautiously optimistic that we MAY BE ON THE THRESHOLD OF BEGINNING TO DEFINE AN R1b1b2a1b GUITTARD PROFILE THAT REACHES BACK TO THE FAMOUS GUITTARD FAMILY COMMUNE OF THE 1100's. We are seeking two or more suitable Guittard testers tracing back to different areas of Puy de Dome who are not known to be related to each other, or to our other two current Guittard Puy de Dome testers, and whose families have lived in Puy de Dome as long as anyone can remember. The ideal tester would have a family tradition of being descended from the Guittard commune. A remote or deep match between three or more Puy de Dome testers could provide increasing confidence on whether we have correctly identified the Y-DNA profile reaching back to the Commune Guittard Family of the 1100's. The additional confirmation is sought in view of the historical importance, the obvious challenge, and the far-extended range of this effort to define the famous Guittard Family Commune profile from the 12th-century.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 7: A GUITTARD TESTER BORN IN TOULOUSE IN SOUTHERN FRANCE AND NOW LIVING IN VENEZUELA, HAS POSTED R1b1b2 RESULTS. Depending on how long his family has lived in the Toulouse area, he could be an excellent test on the profile for the Guittards of southern France. The recalculated TiP report shows our Toulouse tester shares a Most Recent Common Ancestor with our Larodde tester from the west side of Puy de Dome to a 53% probability within the last 35 generations -- roughly 875 years ago -- around 1125 AD.
Toulouse is a particularly strategic location for a Guittard test in our study since Toulouse is only about 160 miles south of Puy de Dome, and only about 75 miles north of Andorra and Spanish Catalonia.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 8: A St. Louis Guittar reportedly tracing down from the line of Quebec-St. Louis Guittars has also tested R1b1b2. Guittar's recalculated TiP report is a little closer to our second Puy de Dome Guittard tester (Larodde) than our first, but still fairly remote -- sharing a Most Recent Common Ancestor with our second Puy de Dome tester to a 54% probability within the last 36 generations -- roughly 900 years ago -- around 1100 AD -- about the time the Guittard Commune is reported to have been operating.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 9: OUR SAINTONGE-MONTREAL TESTER HAS POSTED R1b1b2a1b RESULTS REMOTELY RELATED TO THE OTHER R1b1b2 GUITTARD TESTERS. The recalculated TiP report shows our Saintonge tester shares a Most Recent Common Ancestor with our closest Guittard tester (Toulouse) to a 53% probability within the last 43 generations -- roughly 1050 years ago -- around 950 AD. That's approximately in the ballpark of what we might expect for an early, remote-match relationship between Guitard lines from those areas. Our Saintonge tester has been confirmed by deep clade test to be the same R1b1b2a1b sub-clade as our two Puy de Dome testers, reinforcing the possible very early relationship between the Commune Guittards in Puy de Dome in Central France and the Ruffec-source Guitards across France on the western central coast.
TESTING PROGRAM:
If you are from a Guittard line that is not yet represented by two confirming tests in this study, please consider submitting a test. Bear in mind that a 12-marker test is of limited value and typically needs to be upgraded to produce useful information in genealogical tracing. The 37-marker test is typically recommended as an excellent test, being only $50 more than the 12m and providing over 300 % more marker detail with a much greater bang for the buck in markers per dollar. The new and most powerful 67-marker test is most useful in reaching back through the centuries for the most specific data.
If you are in contact with Guittard descendants from a different line, and especially the high-priority groups specified above, please consider explaining the Y-DNA testing program and its benefits and potential to them and encouraging them to participate, or advise the Guittard group administrator.
If you have or know of a Guittard-related webpage, forum page or bulletin board, please consider including a notice of this DNA testing study and website for other Guittard researchers and descendants.
SUGGESTION: Think of a possible connection to your line that you most want to prove or disprove. For example, you may have a strong suspicion that your ancestor is descended from a Guittard family in Kansas, but perhaps you just can't find the records to prove it. Next, check the listed Guittard group ancestors and see if a descendant of that family has already tested. If not, then search through GenForum or RootsWeb or Google or elsewhere, send a few emails, and find and recruit a male Guittard descendant from that line whose test results, compared with yours, would either prove or disprove that connection.
Many of the most valuable test matches reportedly come from test subjects we recruit ourselves. We know the most about what we want to find out, and we have the greatest incentive to figure out how to get it done.
The object is not to recruit as many individual tests as possible that duplicate each other and provide no significant new information. The object is to find and recruit new test candidates who are so positioned on their lines that their tests may provide new information to confirm or negate possible connections between or within the different Guittard lines. In this way we make the most effective use of this extraordinary and powerful new technology.
Please email me if you have any questions, and thanks for stopping in.
John
Volunteer Group Administrator
Guittard Family History Y-DNA Study
1. the Paris-New-Brunswick Guitard line from north central France,
2. the Alsace-Ohio Guittard line coming down from Bellemagny in the northeast corner of Alsace, France,
3. a Puy-de-Dome Guittard line (possibly tracing back to the famous Guittard Family Commune at Thiers) from a French citizen in Puy de Dome near Clermont-Ferrand in central France,
4. a second Puy-de-Dome Guittard line (tracing back to Larodde on the southwest side of Puy de Dome and possibly back to the famous Guittard Commune family),
5. a St. Louis Guittar line,
6. a Guitard (Guittar) test tracing back on the Saintonge-Montreal line on the western coast of central France,
7. a Guittard test from a French citizen born in Toulouse in southern France,
8. a Guitart test from a Spanish citizen in Spanish Catalonia (possibly tracing back to the famous Guitard nobles in Barcelona and Andorra), and
9. a New England Guittard test coming down from Bretten in the northeast corner of Alsace,
PLUS the Bronze Age Lichtenstein family burial cave I2b2 skeletons from 3,000 years ago that were found in northern Germany in 1980, and DNA-typed to the same I2b2 subclade as our Alsatian Guittards.
So please come on in, and help us build an informative and productive Y-DNA surname study for our geographically diverse Guittard families. We are now working to develop tests with other Guittard lines in France, Spain, Germany, the British Isles, and elsewhere in Europe, as well as other American immigrant Guittard lines.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 1: TWELVE 3,000-YEAR-OLD SKELETONS FOUND IN THE LICHTENSTEIN FAMILY BURIAL CAVE WITH BRONZE AGE ARTIFACTS NEAR DORSTE IN LOWER SAXONY, NORTH CENTRAL GERMANY, HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS THE SAME I2b2 SUBCLADE AS OUR ALSATIAN GUITTARDS. Apparently the Lichtenstein people and our Alsatian Guittards' ancestors of 3,000 years ago were at least DISTANT COUSINS. We are doing additional testing to explore the connection and find out more facts.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 2: OUR NEW ENGLAND GUITTARD COMING DOWN FROM BRETTEN, ALSACE, HAS TESTED AS N1 HAPLOGROUP. His Cullen subclade prediction is N3a1-Finn to a 78 % probability. His great-grandfather immigrated from Bretten to NYC in 1878. N is a central Asian lineage associated with Uralic-speaking cultures, which originated in Siberia about 10,000 years ago and spread west across northern Asia and northern Europe to the Finnic and Baltic countries. Today N is one of the most frequent haplogroups found in Scandinavian Europe. The question here is -- how did N1-Finn Guittards get to Bretten in Alsace just a few miles away from the I2b2 Alsatian Guittards in Bellemagny and Brechaumont?
BIG NEWS ITEM # 3: A Guitart in SPANISH CATALONIA has tested R1b1b2. We hope this test will help us ESTABLISH A DNA PROFILE FOR THE GUITARD NOBLE FAMILIES LIVING IN CATALONIA AND ANDORRA DURING THE 900'S AND 1000'S, and find whether the Catalonian Guitards are related to any of our French Guittard families. Our Guitart tester, a Spanish citizen living near the village of Cabo in Spanish Catalonia, appears ideally suited to help us identify the important profile coming down through the family of GUITARD ISARN DE CABOET in 1096 AD. We also hope this test will help us determine whether these SPANISH Catalonian Guitards could earlier have COME DOWN FROM FRANCE, perhaps when Charlemagne retook Spanish Catalonia from the Moors during the Spanish Reconquest in the 790's. His confirmed subclade is R1b1b2a, according to a deep clade SNP test. A second Catalonian Guitart test is needed to verify the profile.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 4: OUR PARIS-NEW-BRUNSWICK GUITARD (SINGLE-T) TESTER (who comes down from Francois the Dragoon's son Jacques) HAS MATCHED OUR ALSACE-OHIO GUITTARD (DOUBLE-T) TESTER. The haplogroup is I2b (possible Celt), and the match is surprisingly close -- 66 out of 67 markers.
We believe this match shows, in combination with conventional paper-records research, that THE ENORMOUS PARIS-NEW-BRUNSWICK GUITARD LINE PROBABLY CAME DOWN FROM THE ALSACE-OHIO GUITTARD LINE. Paris is about 160 miles west of Brechaumont. The FTDNA TiP report shows the Most Recent Common Ancestor for the two lines probably lived in the mid-1700's, when conventional research shows the Alsace-Ohio line was living in Brechaumont, Alsace. Before this match the leading family histories of Francois Guitard's Paris-New-Brunswick line could not trace back before Francois to prove and identify where his line came from before going to Paris.
A second Canadian Guitard on this Paris-New-Brunswick line in Ontario, who traces down from Cyrille, a different son of Francois the Dragoon, has now matched our Alsace-Ohio tester on 64 out of 67 markers.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 5: A GUITTARD TESTER BORN AND NOW LIVING IN PUY DE DOME IN FRANCE, HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS HAPLOGROUP R1b1b2a1b. His family having lived in the Puy de Dome vicinity as long as anyone can remember, he appears to be a suitable candidate to investigate the profile tracing back to the Guittards in the famous 12th-century Guittard Family Commune at Thiers in Puy de Dome. If his R1b1b2 test accurately reflects the profile coming down from the Guittard Family Commune, then clearly the Guittard Family Commune line from Puy de Dome is completely unrelated to the I2 Alsace-New-Brunswick Guittard line. A deep clade test confirms the tester's subclade as R1b1b2a1b -- the same as our second Puy de Dome Guittard tester and our Saintonge Guitard tester below.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 6: A GUITTARD LIVING IN CALIFORNIA HAS PROVIDED OUR SECOND PUY DE DOME TEST -- ALSO R1b1b2a1b, the same subclade as for our first Puy de Dome tester. His father was born in France and immigrated from Jonzac, and he traces his family back to Larodde in Puy de Dome from the 1500's to the 1800's -- on the southwest side of the same department as the historic Guittard Family Commune. The recalculated FTDNA TiP report shows that our two Puy de Dome testers share a Most Recent Common Ancestor to a 52% probability within the last 39 generations -- roughly 950 years ago - around 1050 AD. (Caveat: The recalculated TiP has been applied here beyond its normal and accepted range of 24 generations -- roughly 600 years -- in order to explore the range of these two powerful 67-marker tests in reaching back to the 12th-century commune profile. The as-yet-unproved assumption is that the markers mutated about the same rate before 1400 AD as they have since 1400 AD.)
So we are cautiously optimistic that we MAY BE ON THE THRESHOLD OF BEGINNING TO DEFINE AN R1b1b2a1b GUITTARD PROFILE THAT REACHES BACK TO THE FAMOUS GUITTARD FAMILY COMMUNE OF THE 1100's. We are seeking two or more suitable Guittard testers tracing back to different areas of Puy de Dome who are not known to be related to each other, or to our other two current Guittard Puy de Dome testers, and whose families have lived in Puy de Dome as long as anyone can remember. The ideal tester would have a family tradition of being descended from the Guittard commune. A remote or deep match between three or more Puy de Dome testers could provide increasing confidence on whether we have correctly identified the Y-DNA profile reaching back to the Commune Guittard Family of the 1100's. The additional confirmation is sought in view of the historical importance, the obvious challenge, and the far-extended range of this effort to define the famous Guittard Family Commune profile from the 12th-century.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 7: A GUITTARD TESTER BORN IN TOULOUSE IN SOUTHERN FRANCE AND NOW LIVING IN VENEZUELA, HAS POSTED R1b1b2 RESULTS. Depending on how long his family has lived in the Toulouse area, he could be an excellent test on the profile for the Guittards of southern France. The recalculated TiP report shows our Toulouse tester shares a Most Recent Common Ancestor with our Larodde tester from the west side of Puy de Dome to a 53% probability within the last 35 generations -- roughly 875 years ago -- around 1125 AD.
Toulouse is a particularly strategic location for a Guittard test in our study since Toulouse is only about 160 miles south of Puy de Dome, and only about 75 miles north of Andorra and Spanish Catalonia.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 8: A St. Louis Guittar reportedly tracing down from the line of Quebec-St. Louis Guittars has also tested R1b1b2. Guittar's recalculated TiP report is a little closer to our second Puy de Dome Guittard tester (Larodde) than our first, but still fairly remote -- sharing a Most Recent Common Ancestor with our second Puy de Dome tester to a 54% probability within the last 36 generations -- roughly 900 years ago -- around 1100 AD -- about the time the Guittard Commune is reported to have been operating.
BIG NEWS ITEM # 9: OUR SAINTONGE-MONTREAL TESTER HAS POSTED R1b1b2a1b RESULTS REMOTELY RELATED TO THE OTHER R1b1b2 GUITTARD TESTERS. The recalculated TiP report shows our Saintonge tester shares a Most Recent Common Ancestor with our closest Guittard tester (Toulouse) to a 53% probability within the last 43 generations -- roughly 1050 years ago -- around 950 AD. That's approximately in the ballpark of what we might expect for an early, remote-match relationship between Guitard lines from those areas. Our Saintonge tester has been confirmed by deep clade test to be the same R1b1b2a1b sub-clade as our two Puy de Dome testers, reinforcing the possible very early relationship between the Commune Guittards in Puy de Dome in Central France and the Ruffec-source Guitards across France on the western central coast.
TESTING PROGRAM:
If you are from a Guittard line that is not yet represented by two confirming tests in this study, please consider submitting a test. Bear in mind that a 12-marker test is of limited value and typically needs to be upgraded to produce useful information in genealogical tracing. The 37-marker test is typically recommended as an excellent test, being only $50 more than the 12m and providing over 300 % more marker detail with a much greater bang for the buck in markers per dollar. The new and most powerful 67-marker test is most useful in reaching back through the centuries for the most specific data.
If you are in contact with Guittard descendants from a different line, and especially the high-priority groups specified above, please consider explaining the Y-DNA testing program and its benefits and potential to them and encouraging them to participate, or advise the Guittard group administrator.
If you have or know of a Guittard-related webpage, forum page or bulletin board, please consider including a notice of this DNA testing study and website for other Guittard researchers and descendants.
SUGGESTION: Think of a possible connection to your line that you most want to prove or disprove. For example, you may have a strong suspicion that your ancestor is descended from a Guittard family in Kansas, but perhaps you just can't find the records to prove it. Next, check the listed Guittard group ancestors and see if a descendant of that family has already tested. If not, then search through GenForum or RootsWeb or Google or elsewhere, send a few emails, and find and recruit a male Guittard descendant from that line whose test results, compared with yours, would either prove or disprove that connection.
Many of the most valuable test matches reportedly come from test subjects we recruit ourselves. We know the most about what we want to find out, and we have the greatest incentive to figure out how to get it done.
The object is not to recruit as many individual tests as possible that duplicate each other and provide no significant new information. The object is to find and recruit new test candidates who are so positioned on their lines that their tests may provide new information to confirm or negate possible connections between or within the different Guittard lines. In this way we make the most effective use of this extraordinary and powerful new technology.
Please email me if you have any questions, and thanks for stopping in.
John
Volunteer Group Administrator
Guittard Family History Y-DNA Study