R-Z251 and Subclades

R1b-Z251 Subclades Project: Z251+ S11556+, FGC13899+ Z16943+ Z16944+ L555+
  • 221 members

About us


Welcome to the R1b-Z251 and Subclades project! 

R1b-Z251 is the branch of the human family tree marked by the mutation Z251+. It is a common Y chromosome clade of paternal lineages in Europe. There are currently three large subclades known to be in R1b-Z251 (FGC13899, Z16943, and S11556). This project is intended for people who are SNP tested Z251+ or one of its descendant SNPs. A draft phylogenetic tree for Z251 is shown below based on the most recent testing results and shows the probable relationships for known SNPs.

Z251

Z251>Z16943
Z251>Z16943>A4257
Z251>Z16943>A4257>BY3970
Z251>Z16943>A4257>BY3970>ZP110
Z251>Z16943>A4257>BY3970>ZP110>A9515
Z251>Z16943>A4257>BY3970>ZP110>A9515>A9516
Z251>Z16943>A6078
Z251>Z16943>A6078>BY3968
Z251>Z16943>A6078>BY3968>FGC20688
Z251>Z16943>CTS4157
Z251>Z16943>Z16944
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>A2201
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>BY2916
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>BY2916>A5917
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3682
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3704
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3987
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3670
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3666
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3663
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3686
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3707
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3699
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3699>BY3679
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3665
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC34569>BY3656
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC19539
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC19539>FGC15934
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>FGC19539>FGC15934>FGC19537
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>BY3661
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>BY3712
Z251>Z16943>Z16944>L555>BY3690

Z251>FGC13899
Z251>FGC13899>A228
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241>A551
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241>A551>A545
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241>CTS9686
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241>CTS9686>A237
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241>CTS9686>A237>M6346
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A241>CTS9686>A237>M6346>A239
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A969
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A969>A967
Z251>FGC13899>A228>A969>A967>BY118
Z251>FGC13899>FGC18229
Z251>FGC13899>FGC18229>FGC18230
Z251>FGC13899>BY2914

Z251>S11556
Z251>S11556>S9294
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>A555
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>A555>L583
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>A555>L583>BY317
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>A555>L583>FGC11963
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>BY3226
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>26367020-C-A
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>26367020-C-A>24955928-C-G
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>FGC11986>26367020-C-A>14037026-G-A
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>Z18092
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>Z18092>Z18090
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>Z18092>Z18090>Y15785
Z251>S11556>S9294>BY3230>Z18092>18066811-G-T
Z251>S11556>S9294>S15808
Z251>S11556>S9294>S15808>A10557
Z251>S11556>S9294>S15808>A10557>A10583
Z251>S11556>Z17662
Z251>S11556>Z17662>Z18107
Z251>S11556>Z17662>S19558

STR based clusters that so far fit into R1b-Z251:

D-1130 STR Cluster (385=12,14 448>=30 607<=14 531=12 413b=24)            
EE-1111 STR cluster (388=11 439=11 392=14 459=9,9; Eastern European)            
I STR cluster (385=11,15 448=20 H4=10 YCAII=19,24; mostly Irwin's)
M-711 STR Cluster (459a=7 406s1>=11 413b=25 481=21 446>=14)

An important goal of this project is to discover the deep ancestral family tree of paternal lineages for all R1b-Z251 people. This will help us understand the origins of R1b-Z251 as a whole, at the subclade levels and down to the genealogical family tree level. The primary method of marking branches in the tree are SNPs so this project is for people who are interested in SNP testing.   

The R1b-Z251 project administrators will automatically add members to the appropriate R1b-Z251 subclade project as test results dictate and as those projects are available. This project is only for those Z251+ people who are willing to be added to the appropriate subclade projects. More information on these subclades is available on the "Results" page.



Key steps for you to take

1. You must have a test result with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA.) To read more about DNA testing check the "DNA FAQ" item in the menu above. National Genographic Project testees can easily join, but first you must transfer your test results to FTDNA by following the instructions at your National Genographic web page.

2. To join this project select on “Join request” on the menu bar above and login with your FTDNA account ID and password.

3. Update your paternal origins information from the “MyAccount” menu after logged into your myFTDNA web page. Select “Most Distant Ancestors” and complete the information for your “Paternal Direct” most distant (oldest) ancestor. Please enter only information that is not speculative. Enter first and last names, birth year and as specific a birth and origin location as you can in the “Name” field. For example, “James Welch, b.c.1812, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland”. For the “Country of Origin” field, please be as specific as possible. For instance, rather than select “United Kingdom” please pick either Northern Ireland, Scotland, England or Wales if you know that information. Add the latitude and longitude information as well so that the automatic maps can be drawn properly.

4. Create a Ysearch record from your myFTDNA web page so potential relatives can contact you without exchanging email IDs or other personal information. From the “Y DNA” menu on select “Matches”. On that screen scroll down to find the “Take me to Ysearch.org” button and follow the instructions there. To learn more, Ysearch is at http://ysearch.org.
 
5. Join the Yahoo discussion group for this project. Several project administrators and advanced R1b hobbyists are available on this forum so you can get help. There are also links to scientific papers, research data, etc. on this group. You do not need to supply your actual name for this group. You can use a nickname. You can email R1b-L21-Project-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to subscribe or visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-L21-Project/ 

6. If you have not yet tested to 67 Y STRs (Short Tandem Repeats) please upgrade. R1b is young so it is hard to discern between subgroups and potential relatives oftentimes without 67 STRs. 111 STR testing is clearly preferable, but 67 is the minimum needed.

7. Move forward with an Single-Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) testing plan so your subclade can be identified. A Big Y test is a solid option that gives you very good coverage of the Y DNA SNPs and discovers your own lineage of SNPs. A more moderately priced option is the R1b-L21 SNP Pack as Z251 is well covered with just over 40 SNPs, mostly which are listed on the Y results subgroupings. If you choose Big Y and share your results you will be placed on the "Big Tree with other testers. Big Tree is used for branch discovery.
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=11


A little more about SNPs

Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs) are critical for R1b people. R1b is both a very large group and relatively young. Most European R1b paternal lineages are related within the last several thousand years. That means that R1b STR based haplotypes often look alike. The most common pattern of Y STRs is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). Most R1b people match several components of it. It is just a remnant of the fact we are closely related. SNPs help differentiate the branches of R1b’s descendancy tree.

R1b-Z251 itself, the main branch of our tree, is marked by the SNP Z251. We all are Z251+ since it was present in our common ancestor, a single prehistoric man. R1b-Z251 already has a number of branches that are marked by SNPs. The number of branches discovered continues to grow.

Many of these branches have coincidentally matching Y STRs. In other words, their branches appear to cross. This gives us false matches.This is definitely a problem with limited haplotypes of 12 and 25 STR markers. Getting up to 37 helps, but 67 is really needed. Most members are now going to 111 STRs.

STRs are very useful for general guidance and for matching at the very recent family level, but they are not 100% reliable since some mutate relatively quickly and go both up and down and back to where they started from.

SNPs are much more reliable markers for our paternal lineages. Theoretically, they are permanent throughout eternity so they reliably show our branching of paternal lineages. The number of SNPs available for testing is growing as more and more advanced testing is developed. You will want to identify your terminal SNP, which is the youngest SNP mutation that you have, that is on a formal Y DNA tree, like the ISOGG tree. Your terminal SNP tells you where you fit from a deep ancestral perspective.


SNP testing can:

1) make you more efficient by avoiding false matches when checking for potential genealogical relationships,

2) help you identify deep ancestral family, clan or historical origins,"

3) show you what geographic locations might produce additional matches and pertinent genealogical or historical information and

4) benefit all R1b people in general, as well as science, because we'll have a better understanding of how and when this lineage of men spread across Europe as rapidly and as dominantly as it did.

For additional information on SNP testing please visit http://dna-explained.com/2012/08/10/to-snp-or-not-to-snp/


The more of us who test and share our information, the more we will all know. When you join this project, you have granted permission to place your Y SNP and STR data into the public domain, from which it can never be retrieved. We do not publish your full given name or contact info.

Thank you for your consideration. For Q&A, help and project details please see the Results web page and join the L21 discussion group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-L21-Project/