About us
Upon adopting this project in May 2018, I was forced to run a full regrouping of the Y-DNA test results. I have separated those members with Y-DNA test results who do not have a Norris variant surname, AND who do not claim or appear to descend from a Norris ancestor, into a separate grouping called "zzz - Non-Norris surname, *AND* Y-DNA apparently not from a Norris ancestor." This sorts them to the bottom of the Y results pages, and avoids accidentally including them in further analyses of Norris Y-DNA. I will normally ignore this grouping for the purposes of Y-DNA discussions; most members of that "zzz" group joined to explore their Norris connections on some line other than the direct Y/paternal line. If you feel I should not have put your kit in that grouping please let me know and describe your connection to your Norris line.
As of 22 May 2018, the Norris Project contains representatives of multiple haplogroups, including E, G, I1, I2, J2, R1a and R1b.
The initial groupings from this analysis identified a number of groups of two or more kits in I2 (2 groups), R1a (1 group), and R1b (5 groups), which have been labeled with haplogroup and a number (e.g., R1b-2 is the 2nd grouping identified of R1b members); additional information can be added to group names where it makes sense, such as geographic origin if it turns out to be common to the members. Members of those groups have a decent chance of being able to identify a common ancestor within the genealogical timeframe (out to, say, 200-400 years ago), although sometimes the connection may lie beyond a brick wall, or too far back to realistically identify.
Please keep in mind that the more markers you have tested, the stronger the power it gives for matching and grouping (and for rejecting lower resolution "matches" that turn out to be distant once enough markers are tested). Realistically, grouping and matching is futile at the lowest resolution levels (Y-DNA12 and Y-DNA25), as a high proportion of the initial "matches" at those levels will no longer be matches if tested to a higher level. Y-DNA37 is the minimum recommended testing level, but the results will typically be much more robust at the Y-DNA67 and Y-DNA112 levels. If all the 12- and 25-marker tests were upgraded to 37 or higher, we would probably have some additional groupings showing up.
For that reason, if your kit is tested to only 12 or 25 markers, PLEASE consider upgrading to at least 37 markers, and if you are at 37 or higher, consider an upgrade to the next level if it is feasible.
If you end up in a haplogroup's "Ungrouped" set, don't despair. You can (1) look through your Y-DNA matches outside the project, and if you see any Norris kits, contact them, ask if they've joined the Norris project, and invite them to join if they're not already members. You can also (2) locate a male Norris cousin, preferably a distant one (3rd cousin or further, but no harm in a closer cousin), and invite him to take a Y-DNA test via FTDNA to establish a grouping for your own line. The more distant a cousin you test, the further back you confirm your Norris line, assuming you and your cousin have matching Y results. Matching 3rd cousins confirms the Y line back to the great great grandfather... matching 6th cousins confirms it back to GGGGG grandfather!! You can also (3) wait, and eventually you will likely get more matches.
BIG Y-500 tests done for ~Norris kits in each lineage, so far...:
I2-2: three testers (terminal haplogroup currently as I2-FGC17814)
I2-Ungrouped: one tester (terminal hg as I2-A7111)
R1b-2: one tester(terminal hg as R1b-FGC17429)
R1b-Ungrouped: one tester (terminal hg as R1b-BY23392)
For reference, the path of mutations to get to those branch tips in FTDNA's dynamic Y-SNP Tree is currently (from oldest on left to newest on right) as follows.
I2-2:
L460>P214>M223>CTS616>CTS10057>Z189>L801>Z165>CTS6433>S2364>S2361>Z171>CTS8584>Z185>Z180>Z166>S20905>Z190>FGC17811>Z79>Y5736>Y5730>FGC17814
I2-Ungrouped:
L460>P37>CTS595>S21825>L1286>L1287>L233>Y4252>A7111 (this is a fairly old branch that has no close matches for the tester; we will learn the order of the additional SNPs once some closer Big Y matches appear)
R1b-2:
M269>L23>L51>L151>U106>Z2265>BY30097>Z381>Z301>L48>Z9>Z30>Z27>Z345>Z2>Z7>FGC7559>FGC904>CTS10893>CTS4099>Z38460>FGC17429
R1b-Ungrouped:
M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>BY23392 (this is a very old branch that has no matches for the tester, so our knowledge of it will grow substantially once a match gets a Big Y done)
As of 22 May 2018, the Norris Project contains representatives of multiple haplogroups, including E, G, I1, I2, J2, R1a and R1b.
The initial groupings from this analysis identified a number of groups of two or more kits in I2 (2 groups), R1a (1 group), and R1b (5 groups), which have been labeled with haplogroup and a number (e.g., R1b-2 is the 2nd grouping identified of R1b members); additional information can be added to group names where it makes sense, such as geographic origin if it turns out to be common to the members. Members of those groups have a decent chance of being able to identify a common ancestor within the genealogical timeframe (out to, say, 200-400 years ago), although sometimes the connection may lie beyond a brick wall, or too far back to realistically identify.
Please keep in mind that the more markers you have tested, the stronger the power it gives for matching and grouping (and for rejecting lower resolution "matches" that turn out to be distant once enough markers are tested). Realistically, grouping and matching is futile at the lowest resolution levels (Y-DNA12 and Y-DNA25), as a high proportion of the initial "matches" at those levels will no longer be matches if tested to a higher level. Y-DNA37 is the minimum recommended testing level, but the results will typically be much more robust at the Y-DNA67 and Y-DNA112 levels. If all the 12- and 25-marker tests were upgraded to 37 or higher, we would probably have some additional groupings showing up.
For that reason, if your kit is tested to only 12 or 25 markers, PLEASE consider upgrading to at least 37 markers, and if you are at 37 or higher, consider an upgrade to the next level if it is feasible.
If you end up in a haplogroup's "Ungrouped" set, don't despair. You can (1) look through your Y-DNA matches outside the project, and if you see any Norris kits, contact them, ask if they've joined the Norris project, and invite them to join if they're not already members. You can also (2) locate a male Norris cousin, preferably a distant one (3rd cousin or further, but no harm in a closer cousin), and invite him to take a Y-DNA test via FTDNA to establish a grouping for your own line. The more distant a cousin you test, the further back you confirm your Norris line, assuming you and your cousin have matching Y results. Matching 3rd cousins confirms the Y line back to the great great grandfather... matching 6th cousins confirms it back to GGGGG grandfather!! You can also (3) wait, and eventually you will likely get more matches.
BIG Y-500 tests done for ~Norris kits in each lineage, so far...:
I2-2: three testers (terminal haplogroup currently as I2-FGC17814)
I2-Ungrouped: one tester (terminal hg as I2-A7111)
R1b-2: one tester(terminal hg as R1b-FGC17429)
R1b-Ungrouped: one tester (terminal hg as R1b-BY23392)
For reference, the path of mutations to get to those branch tips in FTDNA's dynamic Y-SNP Tree is currently (from oldest on left to newest on right) as follows.
I2-2:
L460>P214>M223>CTS616>CTS10057>Z189>L801>Z165>CTS6433>S2364>S2361>Z171>CTS8584>Z185>Z180>Z166>S20905>Z190>FGC17811>Z79>Y5736>Y5730>FGC17814
I2-Ungrouped:
L460>P37>CTS595>S21825>L1286>L1287>L233>Y4252>A7111 (this is a fairly old branch that has no close matches for the tester; we will learn the order of the additional SNPs once some closer Big Y matches appear)
R1b-2:
M269>L23>L51>L151>U106>Z2265>BY30097>Z381>Z301>L48>Z9>Z30>Z27>Z345>Z2>Z7>FGC7559>FGC904>CTS10893>CTS4099>Z38460>FGC17429
R1b-Ungrouped:
M269>L23>L51>L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>BY23392 (this is a very old branch that has no matches for the tester, so our knowledge of it will grow substantially once a match gets a Big Y done)