R1b and Subclades Gateway Project for R1b (M343+) Y DNA Haplogroup (includes M269)- Background



L11+, L21+, L23+, L389+, L51+, M269+, M335+, M343+, M73+, P25+, P297+, P310+, P311+, P312+, R1b, R1b1, R1b2a2, U106+, U152+, V88+


Welcome to the R1b and Subclades project!

R1b is the branch of the human family tree marked by the mutation M343+. It is the most common Y chromosome clade of paternal lineages across much of Europe.There are several larges subclades of R1b so there are several large subclade projects, one of which will be important to you. Be sure to read the "Analysis and Commentary" on the "Results" page of this project.

This is a gateway project as its primary function is to support DNA testing steps that will help identify where you fit within R1b and get you to the right subproject.  The R1b project administrators will automatically add members to the appropriate R1b subclade project as test results dictate. This project is only for those R1b people who are willing to be added to the appropriate subclade projects. The largest subclades projects are the P312, U106, L21, U152, ht35 (M269+ P312- U106-) and R1b asterisk (P297+ M269-) projects. More information on these subclades is available on the "Results" page.

An important goal of this project and the various subclade projects is to discover the full deep ancestral family tree of paternal lineages for all R1b people. This will help us understand the origins of R1b as a whole, at the subclade levels and down to the genealogical family tree level. The primary method of marking branches in the tree are SNPs so this project is for people who are interested in SNP testing.  

If you want to join, please take the following steps:

1. You must have a test result with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA.) To read more about DNA testing check the "DNA FAQ" item in the menu above. National Genographic Project testees can easily join, but first you must transfer your test results to FTDNA by following the instructions at your National Genographic web page.

2. To join this project select on “Join request” on the menu bar above and login with your FTDNA account ID and password.

3. Update your paternal origins information from the “MyAccount” menu after logged into your myFTDNA web page. Select “Most Distant Ancestors” and complete the information for your “Paternal Direct” most distant (oldest) ancestor. Please enter only information that is not speculative. Enter first and last names, birth year and as specific a birth and origin location as you can in the “Name” field. For example, “James Welch, b.c.1812, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland”. For the “Country of Origin” field, please be as specific as possible. For instance, rather than select “United Kingdom” please pick either Northern Ireland, Scotland, England or Wales if you know that information. Add the latitude and longitude information as well so that the automatic maps can be drawn properly.

4. Create a Ysearch record from your myFTDNA web page so potential relatives can contact you without exchanging email IDs or other personal information. From the “Y DNA” menu on select “Matches”. On that screen scroll down to find the “Take me to Ysearch.org” button and follow the instructions there. To learn more, Ysearch is at http://ysearch.org.
5. Join the Yahoo discussion group for this project. Several project administrators and advanced R1b hobbyists are available on this forum so you can get help. There are also links to scientific papers, research data, etc. on this group. You do not need to supply your actual name for this group. You can use a nickname. You can email R1b-YDNA-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to subscribe or visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-YDNA/ 

6. If you have not yet tested to 67 Y STRs (Short Tandem Repeats) please upgrade. R1b is young so it is hard to discern between subgroups and potential relatives oftentimes without 67 STRs.

7. Move forward with an Single-Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) testing plan so your subclade can be identified. The Geno 2.0 test is a solid option that gives you very good coverage of the Y DNA SNPs while giving you additional SNPs on other types of DNA. If you do not already have National Genographic Project test result, you can order Geno 2.0 at their web site.

Why test Y SNPs for R1b?

Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs) are critical for R1b people. R1b is both a very large group and relatively young. Most European R1b paternal lineages are related within the last several thousand years. That means that R1b STR based haplotypes often look alike. The most common pattern of Y STRs is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). Most R1b people match several components of it. It is just a remnant of the fact we are closely related. SNPs help differentiate the branches of R1b’s descendancy tree. The most current formal Y descendancy tree is at the International Society of Genetic Genealogy (ISOGG) web link  http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html   A simplified version is at the R1b Yahoo group.

R1b itself, the main branch of our tree, is marked by the SNP M343. We all are M343+ since it was present in our common ancestor, a single prehistoric man. If you scroll down the ISOGG web site to where R1b starts you’ll find a couple hundred branches under R1b that are marked by SNPs. The number of branches discovered continues to grow.

Many of these branches have coincidentally matching Y STRs. In other words, their branches appear to cross. This gives us false matches.This is definitely a problem with limited haplotypes of 12 and 25 STR markers. Getting up to 37 helps, but 67 is really needed.

STRs are very useful for general guidance and for matching at the very recent family level, but they are not 100% reliable since some mutate relatively quickly and go both up and down and back to where they started from.

SNPs are much more reliable markers for our paternal lineages. Theoretically, they are permanent throughout eternity so they reliably show our branching of paternal lineages. The number of SNPs available for testing is growing as more and more advanced testing is developed. You will want to identify your terminal SNP, which is the youngest SNP mutation that you have, that is on a formal Y DNA tree, like the ISOGG tree. Your terminal SNP tells you where you fit from a deep ancestral perspective.

Identifying your terminal SNP will

1) make you more efficient by avoiding false matches when checking for potential genealogical relationships,

2) help you identify deep ancestral family, clan or historical origins,"

3) show you what geographic locations might produce additional matches and pertinent genealogical or historical information and

4) benefit all R1b people in general, as well as science, because we'll have a better understanding of how and when this lineage of men spread across Europe as rapidly and as dominantly as it did.

For additional information on SNP testing please visit http://dna-explained.com/2012/08/10/to-snp-or-not-to-snp/

The more of us who test and share our information, the more we will all know.

Thank you for your consideration. For Q&A, help and project details please see the Results web page and join the R1b-YDNA discussion group at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-YDNA/

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General Fund

Current balance: $150.00

Type Amount Date Donor Note KitNum Donation Type
Credit $100.00 2/3/2015 Lisa Rockwell     Unknown
Credit $50.00 2/6/2014 Joshua Price (Theige) The first of what I hope will be many donations to this group.   Unknown
Debit $39.00 6/9/2013     148668 Unknown
Credit $39.00 6/6/2013 Erik Maher This is for a P312 or U106 test for kit # 148668. Flip a coin; take your pick.   Individual
Debit $39.00 5/29/2013     267597 Unknown
Credit $39.00 5/29/2013 David F Reynolds M335 test for 267597 Varanasi   Unknown
Debit $70.00 11/29/2010     166376 Unknown
Credit $50.00 7/4/2010 tim martin     Anonymous
Debit $20.00 2/19/2010   Rick Arnold's donation was applied to the wrong group.   Unknown
Credit $20.00 5/22/2009       Unknown
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Project Stats

Statistic Type Count
Big Y 625
Combined GEDCOMs Uploaded 1357
DISTINCT mtDNA Haplogroups 815
DISTINCT Y-DNA Confirmed Haplogroups 168
DISTINCT Y-DNA Predicted Haplogroups 0
Family Finder 2525
Genographic 2.0 Transfers 590
Maternal Ancestor Information 3940
mtDNA 2639
mtDNA Full Sequence 1408
mtDNA Plus 2251
mtDNA Subgroups 0
Paternal Ancestor Information 5882
Predicted Y-DNA Haplogroups 1166
Total Members 6504
Unpredicted Y-DNA Haplogroups 0
Unreturned Kits 37
WTY 81
Y-DNA Deep Clade (After 2008) 1435
Y-DNA Deep Clade (Prior to 2008) 1027
Y-DNA Subgroups 24
Y-DNA111 1496
Y-DNA12 6416
Y-DNA25 5879
Y-DNA37 5699
Y-DNA67 4001