I2b L415 I2c L596 Haplogroup Project - News

Geno 2.0

So this SNP is of no use to us.


Family Tree DNA has removed its deep clade test, which checks for shared SNP mutations. The Geno 2.0 test is being used as a replacement test and it is run at

Would theholders of Kits E8496, N37141 and N46242 contact me privately. Bob

the Family Tree DNA lab, but is a product sponsored by the Genographic Project of the National Geographic Society,


It tests for 12,000 known SNPs andother mutations.  

The next proposed WTY will be with a kit from the I2c C Group. Donations towards thistest can be made from the link on the Project Home Page.

This can currently be ordered for$199 US only at the Genographic Project site.  Link to the GP site.       


From: Bob May[mailto:tpibob44@bigpond.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 2:56 PM
To: Bob May

Hi all members of Project I2*

I can now tell you that HG I2* no longer exists for afound living person that we are aware of.

I would like to officially welcome those that remainedafter we had found HG I2b to the HG I2c.

The WTY and separate SNP tests from kits in the I2*Group A 13-23 kits and I2* Group B 14-24 kits and Group C 12-22 kits haveconfirmed these SNPs as identifiers for a new clade for the I2 tree. Theresults for Group B 12-24 and Group C 12-22 need a further confirming result toensure that there are no unusual results that would create a subclade.

I have asked Ken if there is any value for anyone elsetesting these SNPs. My thoughts are that it is not a necessary expense at thistime.

I have started planning for the next WTY which wouldbe a kit from I2* Group  C 12-22 and 1 member of that group has kicked offthe fund raising with a donation of $100. Anyone who is able to donate I wouldask that you consider using the cost of these two SNPs tests as a donation(each SNP cost $29.00 plus a one of $7 if you have not had any SNPs tested orFF tests done which need a sample moved to the Houston Lab.

A submission was put to ISOGG that the new clade benamed I2c, which has now been added to their tree.

I would like to that everyone for all the assistancethey have given, be it by donations, SNP testing, general enthusiasm andenquiries over the last 18 months since we embarked on our first WTY as aproject.

I must add special thanks to the two members whoagreed to let their kits be used for the WTY, the support of the twoadministrators Peter and Russell and the guidance from our other administratorKen.

May we see in the future more advancements with thediscovering of more SNPs appropriate to our band and grow both I2b and I2c.

Be aware that your HG on your FTDNA will not changefor some time until the YCC HG tree is upgraded in 2012.



G’day all

Just a quick note to inform you that the results fromthe WTY have been posted and they found two new SNPs, L596 and L 597. We havecurrently got two kits that are reasonably close to the WTY kit but not knownrelations, one testing each of these SNPs.

Until the results are in I cannot tell you if theywill be helpful to us as only the WTY kit so far has tested + for these SNPs.All the others that have tested these two locations have tested -. The othertests were from other Haplogroups and I1 so there is hope.

For now

G'day all


Wereceived the results of a WTY test that one of our members took late last yearand they showed that we MAY have found three SNPs that will have relevance tous and help form Haplogroup I2c? ***HURRAH EXCITED***

 TheWTY test examines some 190,000 sites on the Y Chromosome looking for markersthat have not yet been discovered. 

I havecontacted Dr Krahn at FTDNA about the procedures for ordering testing for thesethree SNPs.

 In general the process will bethat we will get several members who are the closest matches to our volunteerto test these SNPs to validate that they are right for us.

 The second step will be to selectrepresentives from the 4 major groups to take the tests to assess the overallresults to be expected for the project as the second validation step.

 The final step will be to geteveryone to take these tests.

 To enable you to save yourpenny's, or if you are in a position  to donate to the project for thisSNP testing for those who are not in a good financial position, I estimate thatthe cost of the tests for the 3 SNPs will be about the US $100 mark.

 I would ask you all to be patientduring the coming weeks whilst this validation takes place and when asked toorder do so quickly. Those who are in a budget situation might contact me straightaway so that I can assess what funding we need to raise.

 for now in anticipation

Bob May

Volunteer Admin


-----Original Message -----

From: BobMay


Sent:Thursday, October 14, 2010 4:00 PM

Subject:Update No 4

Hello all

Well we have reached ourfirst two milestones

a. Our 100th memberhas joined.

b. One of ourmembers is currently undergoing an extensive "Walk Through the Y"test whose purpose is to identify brand new SNP mutations.

Could those who have theirresults on ysearch advise me of their ID number please? For your information mykit number is 163679 and my ysearch number 3QKS6.

You will have noticed thatthe groups within the project have expanded. The first was the addition of theI2* - S31 - ADR clade that Ken announced on September 5.

Since than Ihave added a new group I2* - S31 - 12 which is an interesting newcluster. Ken believes it might be a new clade.

PeterHrechdakian has taken on the responsibility of being co-administrator forthe I2* - S31 - B clade. Anyone in that group please use Peter as your firstport of call.

I havesplit I2* - S31 - A  into clusters thus adding 3 extradivisions which I have tagged Ai, Aii and Aiii. I2* - S31 - C I was split in 2 extra divisions which I have tagged Ci andCii. I have forwarded this information to Peter and Russell the two coadministrators and to Ken to have a look at. Are these the beginnings ofsubclades? Time and further investigation will tell. With the A and Aii groupsI have been talking to Don Wallace of the Wallace Project, picking hisbrains about how he see those members who are in both projects.

ForI2* - S31 - A the divisions were made as follows:

A  andAiii are only an initial sort to try and see the group a little clearer. Thereis more work to be done on these two groups.

Ai     #391=10, 458=19, 447=26, 446=16, 413a=21,557=16

Aii    #YCA 11 a/b=21/21, 446=15, 570=20, CDY a/b=35/35, 442=13

ForI2* - S31 - C the divisions were made as follows:

C     #19=16, 447=25, 456=14, CDY a/b=35/35, 413a=21

Ci    #19=15, 447=26, 456=14, 570=16, CDY a/b=36/37, 481=27, 520=21, 446=12

Cii   #385b=15, 389-1=13, 389-2=30, 458=16, 449=30, 449 a/b/c/d=11/15/15/16, CDYa/b=35/37




The SNP results can be transfered to your FTDNA home page.                16/10/2012

21 Sep 2011 On advice from Ken the I2c Bgroup is investigating the relevance of SNP L473 to the project



From:ISOGG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ISOGG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of katherine_hope_borges
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:03 AM
To: ISOGG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ISOGG] NEW Adoptees ISOGG forum

New pages have been added to http://sites.google.com/site/bobsdnai2/home                                                                                 28/11/2011

If there are any Adoptees on this list or others who have a parentage mystery intheir lineage with adoption or an undocumented adoption, you are invited to joina new ISOGG-sanctioned Adoptees forum:
or if you have any project members who are adopted or have other similar circumstances,please pass them message on to them.
Richard Hill and myself are the co-moderators for this forum. It’s for members toshare their successes, what works and what doesn't. Feel free to post questionsand ask advice too.
To subscribe in list message mode, send the word 'subscribe' in an e-mail to:
Best wishes,


15 July2010 From theinformation that Ken Nordtvedt has assembled in his work on I haplogroup the group of results that have thus far been classified I2* (P215+, P217- and P37.2-) or predicted I2* have no other defining markers (DNS or STR) to furtherclassify them. The analysis of the data so far would put them into three majorgroups DYS 393/390 of 12/24, 13/24 and 14/24. The third group of 14/24 has afurther division further defined at DYS 389, 464c, 456, 438 and 594. At thispoint in the project it would appear that the testing priorities to achieve thefirst objective should be:

Some of the members of the B Group in I2c placed orders for SNP L473 to see if this would be able to be used to divide the HG. The final result has been received and all results were negative.

1. Testingfor the FTDNA 67 YDNA markers.

2. Testinggot the SMGF additional markers 441, 445, 452, 461, 462, 463, A10, B7, 635(C4).

Asfurther information is gathered and analysed additional testing may beindicated.

We willalso maintain contact with FTDNA in regards to expanding the regions tested inthe WTY testing which currently tests 100,000 or more sites of your ychromosome for whether it is A, G, C, or T. By comparing your results with adefined standard, new SNPs (mutations at a specific site among the 100,000 orso) in the ancestral line of the tested male can be discovered. One personclassified as I2* has taken this test and no new markers were found. Because ofthe cost of this test it is considered wise to wait for the number of sites tobe increased before another I2* is tested. As information of such an increasehas been received a new candidate has submitted his sample for testing.


6 Sep2010 -----Original Message ----- From: "Ken Nordtvedt" Sent: Sunday, September05, 2010 11:56 PM

Subject:[yDNAhgI] Exciting new I2* Clade

Over thelast couple days an exciting new, isolated (in both time and geography) cladeof I2* has been found.

1) It isfunny what excites some of us, and 2) I believe its I2*. Present count ofmembers consists of 6 Italians, 3 Croats, I Greek, 1 Serbian, and 1 Tyrolean?The clade, itself, looks to be only about 2000 years old to its TMRCA, but thiscould be biased down because such an isolated clade is likely to be found withits most conforming haplotypes first.

Buthere's what is so interesting:  it'sinterclade node with other clades of I2* are ancient. Let's call this clade fornow I2*-ADR; the I2* project folks may want to use a different clade nickname?Here are interclade node age estimates: ADR-Arm 12,000 years ADR-J 15,500 yearsADR-14 12,750 years ADR-13 12,900 years ADR-12 14,000 years

Armstands for Armenian cluster; J stands for Jewish cluster. The estimated TMRCAsfor Arm, J, 12, 13, 14 clades are all much, much less than 12,000 years Ethnicclades J and Arm seem to be affiliated with I2*-14 clade. The J clade is soyoung it just reaches back to a historic era TMRCA.

Membersfor this new I2*-ADR were found in ysearch, smgf, ancestry.com, yhrd, and othergeographical projects. Just the Greek has snp tests, and they point toward I2*but have not totally closed the deal yet (P38+, P37-, M223-, M253-)

There isa brand new I2* project with gung-ho administrators. I2* seems to be ourdeepest in time peek into the origins of y haplogroup I due to mainly to itsage and pecularities of its geographical distribution in Europe and SW Asia. Myown database contains hundreds of I2* haplotypes.

Only asmall fraction of them have joined the I2* project so far because of thenewness of the project. I urge I2* folks to join that project. Some of thebenefits are discounts on further STR or SNP tests. Many of these I2*haplotypes I see in my database only have a limited number of STR markers. Byexpanding to the full 67 plus smgf markers, you could greatly help researchinto the phylogenetic tree structure of I2* and learn how your line relates toit all. Here's the address for the I2* project. Join up and let's try to findout where our haplogroup I earliest ancestors were and when? http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2nosubcladeM170P215/default.aspxKen


Here are some of my thoughts on what to test and on what priority. As this is an YDNA project I will concentrate on that area. One of the things we must first decide is what are we testing for? Once that has been decided then you are ready to look at what tests are available. Oh and a comment before I start, considering we are all working on a budget of some type or other join a name or geographical project and order your first test through them. This will help you get the best prices available at the time you order.

What DNAtraces what?

1.YDNAtraces a direct paternal line.

2.mtDNAtraces a direct maternal line.

3.AutosomalDNA can cross the above lines e.g. you fathers mothers paternal line. FamilyFinder is such a test.

Mypriority is to test to the highest possible test that my budget can cover asthis will give the best value for my dollar. With this in mind I list the orderthat I would consider ordering tests with the emphasis on YDNA I2*Haplogroup.

1.ComprehensiveGenome test - This is a combination YDNA, Full mtDNA and Family Finder.

2.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers

3.SuperDNA test – This is a combination YDNA and Full mtDNA.

4.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers

5.YDNA67+ mtDNAPlus.

6.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers

7.YDNA37+ mtDNAPlus.

8.YDNA67or YDNA37+mtDNA.

9.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers

10.YDNA12+ mtDNA.




14.UpgradeYDNA12 to YDNA67.

15.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers

16.UpgradeYDNA12 to YDNA37.

17.UpgradeYDNA12 to YDNA25.

18.UpgradeYDNA25 to YDNA67.

19.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers

20.UpgradeYDNA25 to YDNA37.

21.UpgradeYDNA37 to YDNA67.

22.UpgradeYDNA67 with the 9 additional SMGF markers.

Becauseof my budget I tested as follows YDNA67 + mtDNAplus, Deep Clade, Family Finder(it was not available when I started) and just recently the SMGF 9 additionalmarkers.

TheYDNA67 told me I was predicted M170+ I2.

The deepclade didn’t tell me any more than a predictive program could but did give methe following SNP results. P215+, P217- and P37.2-, which placed me in I2 butnot in I2a or I2b and as no I2 has so far been found into I2*.

SMGF9 resultshave added to the DYS data.

Familyfinder results are in as are being worked on.

My initial reason for DNA testing was to try and identify a male line between 100and 200 hundred years ago. This aim so far has not been achieved, but my interest in YDNA and what was going on with the I2* haplogroup has increase and intensified over the last months to make me want to really nail down where this male line originated.

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