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The project start the 28/05/2009 to collect others Bolgeri Ydna.. The Bolgeri surname may be derivated from BOLG =belly ..or bag.. in ancient gallo-italic.. lombard celtic dialect.. But May be there is also a ancestral Switzerland origin? I see Bilgeri was an ancient surname from Zurig's citizen... In Zurig there is a Bilgeri (family) tower etc.. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilgeriturm I am open about to confirm or not this Switzerland origin!? L'origine del cognome Bolgeri sembrerebbe derivare dalla parola di origine celtica BOLG ... che vuol dire sacca o pancia.. nel dialetto gallo-italico parlato nella zona.. Un'altra origine potrebbe essere dal cognome Bilgeri... derivato dallo svizzero tedesco BILGERI=Pilgrim....ovvero pellegrino. Non sarebbe impossibile che un capostipite, proveniente dalla Svizzera col cognome Bilgeri sia arrivato nella Valalssina?! E abbia trasformato, arrivando nel comasco, il cognome da Bilgeri a Bolgeri.. Chiaramente questa ipotesi potrà essere dimostrata solamente quando degli altri Bilgeri, del cantone di Zurigo in Svizzera o nel Voralberg austriaco, .. faranno il test..
22/07/2011 News.
Now with the latest test results for 111 STR in Bolgeri family project.
we can make comparisons between three people from the same valley in Lombardy "Vallassina" and all with a rare original surname... ancestral only in a small mountain village in Northern Italy.
I remember that from my "Belgieri" genealogy from 1550 to the end of 1695 the only name of our ancestrals villages (Civenna and Barni villages) was "Bolgeri".
The progenitor of my family ancestor Belgieri .. my great great-grandfather emigrated from the valley of origin in 1710.
Thus, the common origin between me Belgieri and the other gentlemen Belgeri or Bolgeri was more than three centuries ago.
I hoped ab. the certainty that our so rare surname (Bolgeri should be thinker/coppersmith in ancient lombard gallo-italic dialect) may have preserved a common origin.
http://www.familytre...tion=ycolorized
Indeed, the first results with only 12 STR exclude a common origin.
The progression was as follows
GD between Belgieri and Belgeri:
2/12 - 3/25 - 5/37 - 8/67 - 11/111;
GD between Belgieri and Bolgeri:
3/12 - 5/25 - 7/37 - 8/67 - 12/111;
GD between Belgeri and Bolgeri:
1/12 - 2/25 - 4/37 - 8/67 - 11/111;
Mutations at 12 STR :
DY391 - DYS 385b - DYS439;
Mutations at 25 STR :
DYS449 - DYS464b;
Mutations at 37 STR:
DYS576 - CDY a CDYb;
Mutations at 67 STR:
DYS594 - Dys534 - Dys520 - Dys565;
Mutations at 111 STR:
Dys445 - Dys712 - Dys650 - Dys513 - Dys461;
Total 17 STR mut..var.
Just the fact that we are all L20+ results as SNP has induced to hope.
In comparing Y-DNA111 markers, which show 11 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 0.78%.
...12 generations is 12.90%.
...16 generations is 40.91%.
...20 generations is 70.00%.
...24 generations is 88.17%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations
In comparing Y-DNA67 markers, which show 8 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 1.35%.
...12 generations is 15.30%.
...16 generations is 40.69%.
...20 generations is 66.15%.
...24 generations is 83.75%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations
In comparing Y-DNA111 markers, which show 11 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 0.89%.
...12 generations is 14.21%.
...16 generations is 43.56%.
...20 generations is 72.52%.
...24 generations is 89.68%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations
In comparing Y-DNA67 markers, which show 8 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 1.55%.
...12 generations is 16.99%.
...16 generations is 43.75%.
...20 generations is 69.23%.
...24 generations is 85.93%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations.
In comparing Y-DNA111 markers, which show 12 mismatches, the probability that (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 0.26%.
...12 generations is 6.11%.
...16 generations is 25.83%.
...20 generations is 54.09%.
...24 generations is 77.61%.
* Assuming (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations.
In comparing Y-DNA67 markers, which show 8 mismatches, the probability that (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 1.06%.
...12 generations is 12.66%.
...16 generations is 35.58%.
...20 generations is 60.62%.
...24 generations is 79.54%.
* Assuming (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations.
Making the calculation that the mutations are 8 on the first 67 STR should be correct to calculate a mutation century.
A common origin 800 years ago?!?
So a MRCA of all us should be at maximum ... the year around 1250 -+ 100 years.. ?
That is the year of birth of surnames in Northern Italy and also the birth of "Bolgeri" surname.
The MRCA of the three Belgeri Belgieri Bolgeri..
should be about 1450 if we see only the Common ancestor of the three family..
Ciao..
Giuseppe (Joseph) Belgieri
P.S. The origin of the surname Bolgeri seems to derive from the ancient Lombard word coppersmith, meaning the person who brings the bellows (bag=bolgia) to adjust the copper pots.
One other possible hypothesis is the common origin of the Bolgeri from Bilgeri Swiss family of .. Zurich canton .. but always in middle age..
Our Bolger ancestrali surname confirmed some about a ancient common origin for very rare surname.. ..
http://genome.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTX053615.html
http://cognome.alfemminile.com/w/cognomi/cognome-belgeri.html
http://www.corriere.it/scienze_e_tecnologie/09_febbraio_12/dna_cognome_valentina_tubino_6e36bd0e-f90c-11dd-bd31-00144f02aabc.shtml
22/07/2011 News.
Now with the latest test results for 111 STR in Bolgeri family project.
we can make comparisons between three people from the same valley in Lombardy "Vallassina" and all with a rare original surname... ancestral only in a small mountain village in Northern Italy.
I remember that from my "Belgieri" genealogy from 1550 to the end of 1695 the only name of our ancestrals villages (Civenna and Barni villages) was "Bolgeri".
The progenitor of my family ancestor Belgieri .. my great great-grandfather emigrated from the valley of origin in 1710.
Thus, the common origin between me Belgieri and the other gentlemen Belgeri or Bolgeri was more than three centuries ago.
I hoped ab. the certainty that our so rare surname (Bolgeri should be thinker/coppersmith in ancient lombard gallo-italic dialect) may have preserved a common origin.
http://www.familytre...tion=ycolorized
Indeed, the first results with only 12 STR exclude a common origin.
The progression was as follows
GD between Belgieri and Belgeri:
2/12 - 3/25 - 5/37 - 8/67 - 11/111;
GD between Belgieri and Bolgeri:
3/12 - 5/25 - 7/37 - 8/67 - 12/111;
GD between Belgeri and Bolgeri:
1/12 - 2/25 - 4/37 - 8/67 - 11/111;
Mutations at 12 STR :
DY391 - DYS 385b - DYS439;
Mutations at 25 STR :
DYS449 - DYS464b;
Mutations at 37 STR:
DYS576 - CDY a CDYb;
Mutations at 67 STR:
DYS594 - Dys534 - Dys520 - Dys565;
Mutations at 111 STR:
Dys445 - Dys712 - Dys650 - Dys513 - Dys461;
Total 17 STR mut..var.
Just the fact that we are all L20+ results as SNP has induced to hope.
In comparing Y-DNA111 markers, which show 11 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 0.78%.
...12 generations is 12.90%.
...16 generations is 40.91%.
...20 generations is 70.00%.
...24 generations is 88.17%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations
In comparing Y-DNA67 markers, which show 8 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 1.35%.
...12 generations is 15.30%.
...16 generations is 40.69%.
...20 generations is 66.15%.
...24 generations is 83.75%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (N9198) Belgieri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations
In comparing Y-DNA111 markers, which show 11 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 0.89%.
...12 generations is 14.21%.
...16 generations is 43.56%.
...20 generations is 72.52%.
...24 generations is 89.68%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations
In comparing Y-DNA67 markers, which show 8 mismatches, the probability that (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 1.55%.
...12 generations is 16.99%.
...16 generations is 43.75%.
...20 generations is 69.23%.
...24 generations is 85.93%.
* Assuming (183488) Belgeri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations.
In comparing Y-DNA111 markers, which show 12 mismatches, the probability that (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 0.26%.
...12 generations is 6.11%.
...16 generations is 25.83%.
...20 generations is 54.09%.
...24 generations is 77.61%.
* Assuming (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations.
In comparing Y-DNA67 markers, which show 8 mismatches, the probability that (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri shared a common ancestor within the last...
...8 generations is 1.06%.
...12 generations is 12.66%.
...16 generations is 35.58%.
...20 generations is 60.62%.
...24 generations is 79.54%.
* Assuming (N9198) Belgieri and (154083) Bolgeri do not share a common ancestor in the last 8 generations.
Making the calculation that the mutations are 8 on the first 67 STR should be correct to calculate a mutation century.
A common origin 800 years ago?!?
So a MRCA of all us should be at maximum ... the year around 1250 -+ 100 years.. ?
That is the year of birth of surnames in Northern Italy and also the birth of "Bolgeri" surname.
The MRCA of the three Belgeri Belgieri Bolgeri..
should be about 1450 if we see only the Common ancestor of the three family..
Ciao..
Giuseppe (Joseph) Belgieri
P.S. The origin of the surname Bolgeri seems to derive from the ancient Lombard word coppersmith, meaning the person who brings the bellows (bag=bolgia) to adjust the copper pots.
One other possible hypothesis is the common origin of the Bolgeri from Bilgeri Swiss family of .. Zurich canton .. but always in middle age..
Our Bolger ancestrali surname confirmed some about a ancient common origin for very rare surname.. ..
http://genome.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTX053615.html
http://cognome.alfemminile.com/w/cognomi/cognome-belgeri.html
http://www.corriere.it/scienze_e_tecnologie/09_febbraio_12/dna_cognome_valentina_tubino_6e36bd0e-f90c-11dd-bd31-00144f02aabc.shtml