All R1b-S1194 and lower sub-clades (CTS4528, A8039)
  • 95 members
Are you a member of the S1194-CTS4528-A8039 project?
Douglas Marker Douglas Marker
February 4 @ 4:20pm
Here is the link to the major project called the R1b Big Tree. As posted earlier, we arranged with the P312 & U106 projects to have us S1194 included in their detailed analysis. We did this because those 2 projects were so much bigger than ours and they have much better resources. I will post a screen grab plus a link to their work. Quite a few S1194 folk have submitted their BigY BAM files.
Dale Heatherington
February 4 @ 6:23pm
Douglas, do you know when/if the Big Tree plans to get around to calculating dates for the subclades within S1194? thanks, Ann H
Douglas Marker
February 7 @ 2:15pm
Anne, no I haven't heard of plans to do that. I will ask Alex.
Douglas Marker Douglas Marker
February 1 @ 7:50pm
A February 2019 update has been made to the FTDNA Project Page. It highlights new information relating to the possible origin of R1b-P312 + R1b-U106 + R1b-S1194 being in the area of the Northern European Plains and not in the Carpathian Basin (this is work in progress and not statements of fact). https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/df100-cts4528-l11-p310-l151-p311/about/background
J B Cole J B Cole
November 24 @ 4:41pm
I am new to this group: I manage Y-111 and Big Y-500 dna kits for my brother who results are currently haplogroup R-FGC23894. We are looking for clues to our Great Grandfather's heritage!
J B Cole
November 24 @ 4:43pm
P.S., JB is my brother. My name is Janet.
Douglas Marker
November 25 @ 10:02pm
Janet - as you have gathered at the FB site we run - your line down to FGC23894 matches the Adams, the Welkers, The Areys. You are in esteemed company with the Adams line.
C Adams
November 30 @ 5:36pm
Janet, I'm Susan, the contact for my uncle, C K Adams. I see FTDNA has identified 4 additional SNPs shared by your brother and my uncle- FGC23887, FGC23896, FGC23901 and FGC23905. They chose to display the FGC23887 SNP on the spreadsheets. Even with these 4 SNPs. our two lines probably still separated 3,000 or more years ago. My Adams line was in Somersetshire, England by the early 1500s CE.
Gary Anderson (Ramirez) Gary Anderson (Ramirez)
September 22 @ 1:37am
I am annoyed that I have been taken off this project but the project is still on my homepage. If you boot someone, please eliminate the project! 623145
Douglas Marker
November 25 @ 10:03pm
Gary, I am not sure what you mean. I can help if you explain the problem. Email me directly if needed. Are you an S1194 person ?
Dale Heatherington Dale Heatherington
May 11, 2018 @ 11:43am
I manage this kit for my brother. His terminal SNP is A8309 with nothing but 30-something "private" SNP's downstream. His best STR matches are to four men named "Atherton" (or close variants) and one Faircloth, all of whose ancestors originated in Lancashire sometime prior to the year 1600. I wanted to find out if these people might also be positive for A8039. One Atherton gentleman agreed to test for the single SNP A8039, at my expense. His result just came back and he is indeed A8039. This is very exciting to me, both for personal genealogical reasons and because it looks like an opportunity to learn a lot more about A8039 and its subclades. I want to order Big-Y for Mr. Atherton but I am not rich. Admins: Does this group have any money in the general fund that could be applied to the cost of a Big-Y test for Mr. Atherton? Thank you. Ann H.
Douglas Marker
May 14, 2018 @ 1:41am
Sorry but we don't have any such funds. However you must be pleased at the A8309 find - I will delve deeper when time permits. Admin.
Dale Heatherington
May 14, 2018 @ 11:35am
Douglas-- OK. Thank you for responding and yes, I am pleased about the find. I should mention that besides the five Atherton/Faircloth men who who show up as STR matches to my brother, there are another four men in the Atherton group who just miss being a match by one or two STR's. So that gives a total of *ten* men who either have been proven A8039 or are likely to be. And from what I can tell of the trees I have seen, most cannot be close cousins (no more recent than the late 1700's and at least one pair does not converge until prior to 1400). The Atherton family were landed gentry in Lancashire, thus their family line is recorded. So the paper trail is unusually good a long ways back and could be potentially used to date some of the SNP's downstream from A8039.
Melvin Schmidt Melvin Schmidt
March 24, 2018 @ 6:05pm
This is my paternal grandfather as young and older
Dale Heatherington
March 26, 2018 @ 4:10pm
Do you mean he was born 1839?
Douglas Marker
April 7, 2018 @ 9:08pm
Melvin, I have your entry in our project and see you are a new unique member - a very very rare branch the splits off before L151 which is is before the big branches of P312 & U106 and before S1194 as well. I will create a new place in our project listing ahead of Hallissey & place you there. Your line is so new. The L51 split from the L151 cluster as best I know, was only found last year. Again unique. Cheers Doug Marker
Melvin Schmidt
April 10, 2018 @ 10:54pm
yes, 1839
Douglas Marker Douglas Marker
February 11, 2018 @ 1:38pm
More information on the Combined R1b L11 project we are participating in with the P312 & U106 projects. EXTRACT: "Producing an automated next-generation Y-DNA phylogenetic tree Premise: We aim to produce an open-source software package that can be used by Y-DNA professional and amateur researchers, which combines many of the existing tools and techniques available to the community. The package is designed so that it takes raw data in and compresses it into a small database for fast operations, cross-compares kits to produce a Y-SNP-based phylogeny, overlays Y-STR data onto that phylogeny and performs haplogroup estimation, overlays submitted geographical data onto each kit and computes migration pathways, and uses molecular clocks to associate nodes of the phylogenetic tree with historical periods. Taken together, this allows the researcher to chart the spread and diversification of a haplogroup through its migrations. The package will be run on R-L11, the major European haplogroup R1b clade, before being made available more widely. Motivation and background: This project was borne out of two needs: a need to allow users to compare their Y-DNA results to understand their place in the phylogenetic tree, and a need to put that tree in a geographical and historical context. Most of the leading testing companies do not allow proper cross-comparison of datasets, and the academic community has not ventured into the small-scale population differences of these minor clades in any statistical sense. Yet there is a pressing desire for people taking Y-DNA tests to understand their family's ancient societal and migrational history. There are a number of tools made available by individual researchers, but none have been peer-reviewed, and there is considerable onus on people using these tools to provide ongoing curation of data. We want to combine these tools, submit their theory for peer review, and automate the processes linking them together. These processes include the haplotree creation and age analysis we have provided for R-U106 and R-P312 Build 37 BigY tests from Family Tree DNA, but also links together haplogroup prediction and geographical migration. The combination allows us to look at migration in a much more homogeneous context than we would otherwise be able to do, and provides an automated analysis with minimal curation for professional and amateur researchers going into the future." http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/build38.html
Douglas Marker Douglas Marker
February 5, 2018 @ 3:46pm
This is an update (19Jan2018) from the team working on the new combined database (P312, U106 & S1194). This effort is why we need to support the combined project as we S1194 are going to be the biggest beneficiaries (because we are so tiny in numbers & effort by comparison). From Iain McDonald: "Update: 19 Jan 2018: The code is being re-written in Python, backed by an SQL-based database structure. Helping me in this venture are Jef Treece and Zak Jones, with additional input from Harald Alvestrand and David Stumpf. Currently, we are working on two issues: finalising the database architecture, and generalising and automating the problem of haplotree creation. While the new version of the code is designed to take data for a variety of sources, it is currently anticipated that we will first generate a haplotree from R-L11 (U106+P312+S1194) BigY Build 38 data as a proof-of-concept, before extending this to data from other companies (and potentially other haplogroups). Once that is complete, we will get the age analysis and other analyses back up and running."
Douglas Marker Douglas Marker
February 5, 2018 @ 3:27pm
This is a document prepared by Iain McDonald (admin at U106 project) and is very helpful for anyone interested in understanding ancient DNA finds. Iain has grouped the current known data into ages (by page) and on each page shows the three groups of most interest to us (P310/P311 & P312 & U106). We S1194 are likely to be among the P310/P311 entries but this aspect is being further analysed. We have a joint project (see post below) with U106 & P312 and us S1194 where we are providing our VCF/BED data to a common project to help position us all and this report from Ian McDonald now mentions S1194 as the third brother. Again, it is reasonable to expect that as more data is sent into our common project, we can better identify S1194 among other haplogroups so we encourage everyone to send their VCF/BED data from FTDNA or FGC into the joint project. If anyone is unsure what a VCF/BED file is or where to find their own - please either ask here or email me and I will guide you to where it can be found. In the below report, look at the top left on each page to see the numbers of P310/P311 finds (P312 & U106 are also listed). Again, in time we believe some of these P310/P311 will be identified as S1194 peoples. Analysis of Ancient DNA http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/report-2017-ancient-revised.pdf
Douglas Marker Douglas Marker
January 16, 2018 @ 10:32pm
****************************************************************** To all in the S1194 Group: Family Tree DNA are nearing completion of their upgrade to Human Reference Genome 38, which has involved providing more detail on BigY tests. Currently this detail isn't being used to its full advantage. To properly investigate this data, James Kane, Alex Williamson and Iain McDonald have set up a data repository, to which they are asking any willing persons within R-S1194 to upload the raw VCF/BED data from their next-generation sequencing tests (BigY, YElite, WGS, etc.): Please visit this link = http://www.haplogroup-r.org/submit_data.php Instructions and a description of how we agree to use your data are available on the above website. If you are unable to follow these instructions, use the instructions on Iain McDonald's website. http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/instructions.html We would also ask that Full Genomes Corp. testers re-submit their YElite/WGS data once a Build 38 version becomes available. This database is already collecting data on R-P312 and R-U106 testers. Incorporating data from R-S1194 testers will allow us to compare the three main branches of R-L11 to each other in an unbiased way. While we are in earliest stages of this analysis now, ultimately, we hope this will allow us to systematically explore R-S1194 in proper context with R-P312 and R-U106 in a relatively unbiased way, answering questions such as: "Do branches of R-S1194 share the same distributions as branches of R-U106?", and "Which branches of R-S1194 formed at the same time as branches of R-P312?". James Kane: http://www.haplogroup-r.org/ Alex Williamson: http://ytree.net/ Iain McDonald: http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics.html Doug Marker: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/df100-cts4528-l11-p310-l151-p311/about/background ******************************************************************
Dale Heatherington
January 17, 2018 @ 7:50pm
Data uploaded.
Douglas Marker
January 18, 2018 @ 3:21pm
It is great to see just how many S1194 people have responded. It will help us greatly in positioning us alongside U106 and P312.